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Message
Questions about Reagan
Posted on 4/9/14 at 11:57 pm
Posted on 4/9/14 at 11:57 pm
hahah oops, hit enter too soon...
"Morning in America"
Anyway, I hear all this stuff about Reagan and people lionizing him. Was he really all that great?
Or is just what the GOP has pumped out in the last forever just not been that great?
listening to the Levin podcast he said for anyone under 50 years old they haven't had one single chance to vote for a true conservative. That's sad.
When it comes to Reagan I always either think of Reaganomics or the Iran-Contra affair which was a fricking shite show. If that were to happen today the shite would be HUGE. Not sure if the media was quite the same back then. Still think there is a lot the public doesn't know regarding it either
Just read this stat
"Morning in America"
Anyway, I hear all this stuff about Reagan and people lionizing him. Was he really all that great?
Or is just what the GOP has pumped out in the last forever just not been that great?
listening to the Levin podcast he said for anyone under 50 years old they haven't had one single chance to vote for a true conservative. That's sad.
When it comes to Reagan I always either think of Reaganomics or the Iran-Contra affair which was a fricking shite show. If that were to happen today the shite would be HUGE. Not sure if the media was quite the same back then. Still think there is a lot the public doesn't know regarding it either
Just read this stat
quote:They never leave office with a higher approval rating than they entered, and over 50%
He entered office with a 51% approval rating and left office eights years later with 63% approval.
This post was edited on 4/10/14 at 12:07 am
15
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:18 am to SuperSaint
Reagan may have been the last true statesman that this country had. He loved this country and used every opportunity to shower it and its people with praise.
He restored hope in America that had disappeared in the 7 short years after Nixon resigned and Carter took the country to depths it never thought it would see.
I have never understood why his economic plan is so ridiculed. When he took office, the country was mired in stagnant everything. We had double digit interest rates (even for home loans), double digit inflation, fairly high unemployment and our military might was deteriorating rapidly. By the time he left office, interest rates were back to respectable levels, jobs were plentiful, the economy was growing by leaps and bounds, and the old USSR was near collapse.
Two things he did I disagreed with: 1. Iran-Contra; and 2. amnesty deal.
I think Iran-Contra was your typical boneheaded governmental good intentions gone awry type deal. Reagan despised communism more than anything. He pretty much saw any plan to quash it as a good plan. Not so much.
As for the amnesty deal, I remember at the time thinking what a stupid idea it was to give amnesty to 2-3 million illegals. Well, now we have 20+ million here.
No President is perfect, but, on the whole, I'll take Reagan over any of the Presidents I've seen in my 52 years. He was a true leader, he spoke his mind, and he had a sincerity that drew people to him.
He restored hope in America that had disappeared in the 7 short years after Nixon resigned and Carter took the country to depths it never thought it would see.
I have never understood why his economic plan is so ridiculed. When he took office, the country was mired in stagnant everything. We had double digit interest rates (even for home loans), double digit inflation, fairly high unemployment and our military might was deteriorating rapidly. By the time he left office, interest rates were back to respectable levels, jobs were plentiful, the economy was growing by leaps and bounds, and the old USSR was near collapse.
Two things he did I disagreed with: 1. Iran-Contra; and 2. amnesty deal.
I think Iran-Contra was your typical boneheaded governmental good intentions gone awry type deal. Reagan despised communism more than anything. He pretty much saw any plan to quash it as a good plan. Not so much.
As for the amnesty deal, I remember at the time thinking what a stupid idea it was to give amnesty to 2-3 million illegals. Well, now we have 20+ million here.
No President is perfect, but, on the whole, I'll take Reagan over any of the Presidents I've seen in my 52 years. He was a true leader, he spoke his mind, and he had a sincerity that drew people to him.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:36 am to mtntiger
Reagan doubled down on Nixon's War on Drugs, even as he allowed the Contras to fly cocaine into the US.
I can appreciate the man and all he did, but this is something that I cannot forgive.
I can appreciate the man and all he did, but this is something that I cannot forgive.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:39 am to mtntiger
quote:That 3 million done bred and turned into 8 million legal voters for the DemParty
As for the amnesty deal, I remember at the time thinking what a stupid idea it was to give amnesty to 2-3 million illegals. Well, now we have 20+ million here.
And If I remember correctly when they were debating immigration just recently it was said that Reagan's Act was a failure because his plan to completely secure the borders was never funded, may have been Walker Bush, and the strict laws on employers were never enacted. So his "plan" wasn't a failure, just the implementation
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:43 am to SuperSaint
He'd probably be considered a RINO by today's GOP hardliners.
Reagan gets credit for ending the Cold War, but so should every other president since WWII. He happened to be the one on whose watch it occurred. Maybe he sped up the process by a couple of years, maybe not. It's arguable. I believe he took some needless risks-the Russians were seriously considering preemptive war at one point based on their fear of what Reagan might do.
He fricked up supremely in Beirut, and I'd argue that Grenada was a wag the dog attempt to deflect attention from it. Then there was Iran-Contra. If Clinton lying about a blowjob was an impeachable offense, then what Reagan did certainly was, but Reagan was popular, and the Democrats had no balls.
Much of the blowback we've had to deal with in the Middle East is traceable to decisions on his watch. We can also thank retreads from the Reagan era for our disastrous Iraq policy under GWB.
On the domestic side, he was a wild deficit spender to expand the military.
He wasn't a terrible president, but he doesn't belong on Mount Rushmore, and doesn't deserve the deification he gets from the some quarters.
On the plus side, he wasn't personally corrupt, and I believe he loved this country, his heart was in the right place and he meant well, although several of his policies were terribly misguided.
Reagan gets credit for ending the Cold War, but so should every other president since WWII. He happened to be the one on whose watch it occurred. Maybe he sped up the process by a couple of years, maybe not. It's arguable. I believe he took some needless risks-the Russians were seriously considering preemptive war at one point based on their fear of what Reagan might do.
He fricked up supremely in Beirut, and I'd argue that Grenada was a wag the dog attempt to deflect attention from it. Then there was Iran-Contra. If Clinton lying about a blowjob was an impeachable offense, then what Reagan did certainly was, but Reagan was popular, and the Democrats had no balls.
Much of the blowback we've had to deal with in the Middle East is traceable to decisions on his watch. We can also thank retreads from the Reagan era for our disastrous Iraq policy under GWB.
On the domestic side, he was a wild deficit spender to expand the military.
He wasn't a terrible president, but he doesn't belong on Mount Rushmore, and doesn't deserve the deification he gets from the some quarters.
On the plus side, he wasn't personally corrupt, and I believe he loved this country, his heart was in the right place and he meant well, although several of his policies were terribly misguided.
This post was edited on 4/10/14 at 1:10 am
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:43 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:I read some stuff where you could literately trace the crazy uptick in crack in the mid-80s back to the white house. I'm sure they could have figured a better way to funnel these guys money than costing America a generation of crack heads.
even as he allowed the Contras to fly cocaine into the US.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:44 am to SuperSaint
I remember after Carter, the country was in a world of shite. Big Ron over the next 8 years created 20 million or so jobs. And not none of this Obama "saved or created" bullshite.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:51 am to Bushmaster
I'm not sure about oil production and all that at the time, I wasn't born until 82', but I know places like Houma, Laff, Morgan City and so on had some major booms around that time up until the late 80s I believe there was a crash. May have been early 90s..... Not sure if Reagan had anything to do with being energy friendly
Him throwing dollars at the Afgans because he was scared of communism may have actually bit us in the arse 20 years later
Him throwing dollars at the Afgans because he was scared of communism may have actually bit us in the arse 20 years later
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:54 am to mtntiger
quote:
I think Iran-Contra was your typical boneheaded governmental good intentions gone awry type deal. Reagan despised communism more than anything. He pretty much saw any plan to quash it as a good plan. Not so much.
If there is anything we should learn front eh cold war it is that the enemy of your enemy is not your friend.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:59 am to SuperSaint
quote:
I'm not sure about oil production and all that at the time, I wasn't born until 82', but I know places like Houma, Laff, Morgan City and so on had some major booms around that time up until the late 80s I believe there was a crash. May have been early 90s..... Not sure if Reagan had anything to do with being energy friendly
Several factors precipitated the oil crash. Energy conservation measures started taking effect. Certain policy changes led to increased US production-some of them started under Carter, others under Reagan. OPEC was unable to control its members, meanwhile new non-OPEC sources came online like the North Sea and Nigeria. The final straw was when Saudi Arabia tried to regain market share by turning the taps wide open.
quote:
Him throwing dollars at the Afgans because he was scared of communism may have actually bit us in the arse 20 years later
This. Unintended consequences in spades. Then when the Soviets collapsed, we forgot about Afghanistan and left a destroyed country, young men with nothing to do and no future, and a lot of weapons lying around.
This post was edited on 4/10/14 at 1:02 am
Posted on 4/10/14 at 6:29 am to Jim Rockford
Reagan had the ability to go above the heads of a hostile media and Democrat congress and connect directly with the American people. It was a rare talent and if you lived during his presidency and compare him to the following office holders you can appreciate it even more (although Clinton had this same skill to some degree).
The hostages in Iran, bombing Gaddafi and 'Tear down this wall' are all legendary events from his presidency. He was maybe the last President to openly talk about the threats of a large Federal government.
The media still hates him, and I worry that in years to come as people die off his legacy will become more of a media creation than what happened in reality.
And what would JFK be considered by today's Democrat Party? The subtle dig in the line above shows some level of political naivete. Plus I don't know that it is accurate.
Jimmy Carter?
Part of the reason Amercans loved him after the Carter shite show and one of the reasons the USSR eventually fell apart not long after Reagan IMO.
The hostages in Iran, bombing Gaddafi and 'Tear down this wall' are all legendary events from his presidency. He was maybe the last President to openly talk about the threats of a large Federal government.
The media still hates him, and I worry that in years to come as people die off his legacy will become more of a media creation than what happened in reality.
quote:
He'd probably be considered a RINO by today's GOP hardliners.
And what would JFK be considered by today's Democrat Party? The subtle dig in the line above shows some level of political naivete. Plus I don't know that it is accurate.
quote:
so should every other president since WWII
Jimmy Carter?
quote:
their fear of what Reagan might do
Part of the reason Amercans loved him after the Carter shite show and one of the reasons the USSR eventually fell apart not long after Reagan IMO.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 6:47 am to weagle99
2 words. Achille Lauro
Posted on 4/10/14 at 6:47 am to weagle99
quote:
Jimmy Carter?
Carter started the post-Vietnam military buildup that Reagan built on, initiated the Olympic boycott, the Soviet grain embargo, reestablished draft registration, and sent the first aid to Afghan guerilla fighters.
quote:
The hostages in Iran,
One wonders if the truth will ever come out about the rumored deal between Iran and Reagan's camp to keep them captive until after the election. Iran-Contra proves he and his advisors were not above cutting backdoor deals with our supposed enemies.
This post was edited on 4/10/14 at 7:07 am
Posted on 4/10/14 at 7:11 am to SuperSaint
quote:
Was he really all that great?
Yes.
quote:
Or is just what the GOP has pumped out in the last forever just not been that great?
This is also true, so he looks even better, by comparison.
quote:
listening to the Levin podcast he said for anyone under 50 years old they haven't had one single chance to vote for a true conservative.
That's true - I didn't turn 18 until after the 1984 election.
quote:
When it comes to Reagan I always either think of Reaganomics or the Iran-Contra affair which was a fricking shite show.
"Reaganomics" absolutely worked - there was no "income" problem during the 80s - it was a spending problem. He never had control of the House, an only 2 out of 8 years in the Senate - to get his priorities passed, he had to negotiate a lot of spending with the Dems. His priorities were the defeat of the Soviet Union and reversal of a lot of the creeping socialism of the 70 - he accomplished those, in spades.
Iran-Contra is unfortunate, but I don't view it as a stain on Reagan at all.
quote:
Not sure if the media was quite the same back then.
Only CNN was in the 24-hour news cycle - they pounded on Reagan every single day - and he gave approximately zero fricks about it. Remember - he came out of Hollywood - their press has always been brutal.
quote:
He entered office with a 51% approval rating and left office eights years later with 63% approval.
I think you got to the truth by the end of the post - Reagan was an American first - he did what he thought was right, regardless of party priorities or public relations fallout. In the end, ordinary people respond to that favorably.
Today, everything is parsed and filtered through focus groups, strategic "messaging", nuanced, "triangulated" to create these temporary bubbles of 50 percent plus 1 - or they just outrigh lie about something's popularity (gun control, ACA, etc.).
Dumb as we are, as a society, we see through things like that, now.
This post was edited on 4/10/14 at 7:15 am
Posted on 4/10/14 at 7:22 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
Reagan doubled down on Nixon's War on Drugs, even as he allowed the Contras to fly cocaine into the US.
I can appreciate the man and all he did, but this is something that I cannot forgive.
Absolutely
Posted on 4/10/14 at 8:42 am to Jim Rockford
quote:Silly. Comparing Reagan's ideology to the 'ideology' of Lindsey Graham, John McCain, Olivia Snowe, Boehner, and McConnell is non-sensical.
He'd probably be considered a RINO by today's GOP hardliners.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 8:51 am to SuperSaint
quote:Im not sure us describe the fastest post-war recovery and growth rates a "shite show"
When it comes to Reagan I always either think of Reaganomics or the Iran-Contra affair which was a fricking shite show.
Iran-contra was, though. And Reagan said as much in a prime-time-nation-wide televised address. He owned up to it. If Obama had a little Pinky toe's worth of Reagan's honor, he'd be doing the same for the NSA, the IRS and that jackass Eric Holder.
At least Reagan's indiscretion wasn't on Americans' citizenry.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 10:04 am to SuperSaint
Re: Economics. RR was a devotee of the Chicago School of Supply Side Econ. Think Milton Friedman. It was named after a group of Econ Profs at U. of Chicago.
The left referred to it derisively as 'trickle down' to play into class envy. Supply Side worked. The 80s were great... a time of unprecedented peace time growth. The economy was so good that the MSM developed a technique to undercut the good news.
It went like this...
"Good evening, I'm Dan Rather and welcome to CBS Evening News. Some good economic news today as the unemployment rate dropped to 4% but that doesn't help people like Maude McGinnis who cannot find work and has trouble feeding her 6 children. For her story we go to Tina Titless in Memphis..."
Then Tina would present her 10 minute story about poor Maude who would say things like "Ah don't know where they get this good economy stuff. Ah don't see it. There ain't no jobs out there. Mah kids don't know iffin' they gonna eat from one day to the next. We need help out here and the President don't seem to care no way no how."
This kind of reporting went on every day for 8 years.
The left referred to it derisively as 'trickle down' to play into class envy. Supply Side worked. The 80s were great... a time of unprecedented peace time growth. The economy was so good that the MSM developed a technique to undercut the good news.
It went like this...
"Good evening, I'm Dan Rather and welcome to CBS Evening News. Some good economic news today as the unemployment rate dropped to 4% but that doesn't help people like Maude McGinnis who cannot find work and has trouble feeding her 6 children. For her story we go to Tina Titless in Memphis..."
Then Tina would present her 10 minute story about poor Maude who would say things like "Ah don't know where they get this good economy stuff. Ah don't see it. There ain't no jobs out there. Mah kids don't know iffin' they gonna eat from one day to the next. We need help out here and the President don't seem to care no way no how."
This kind of reporting went on every day for 8 years.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 10:10 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Much of the blowback we've had to deal with in the Middle East is traceable to decisions on his watch. We can also thank retreads from the Reagan era for our disastrous Iraq policy under GWB.
That's fricking nonsense. Our issues with poor foreign policy in the Middle East can be traced back to the Paris Peace Convention in 1919 after World War I and everything else in between.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 10:17 am to SuperSaint
quote:
They never leave office with a higher approval rating than they entered, and over 50%
What are the stats for Clinton?
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