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re: Question about our debt ?

Posted on 1/15/17 at 12:29 pm to
Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 12:29 pm to
Debt increases automatically as currency is created.

Obviously there is also wasteful spending.
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 12:41 pm to
quote:

They cost us far less than the wars, surveillance and military budget.



The military is necessary. Sometimes wars are foisted upon nations in order to protect themselves. Filtering for those, what are you basing that claim on? What numbers did you use to arrive at that conclusion, and what method did you use to separate the actual needy from the welfare program scammers?
Just curious.

Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 12:43 pm to
quote:

We need the military and surveillance, we don't need illegals and generational welfare families.


Exactly.
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 12:47 pm to
quote:

If you think we need to spend as much as the next 42 countries combined on military and surveillance


Yeah...a lot of waste. Let those other countries carry the majority of their own defense. That said the welfare waste is the result of actual scam artists...so, apples to oranges.
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 12:50 pm to
Umm..your graphs show that the majority of spending is for social programs of one form or another...soo...
Posted by Evolved Simian
Bushwood Country Club
Member since Sep 2010
23165 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

Umm..your graphs show that the majority of spending is for social programs of one form or another...soo...




Actually, it's even more. Almost half of the generic "military" number is to provide healthcare and lifetime pensions for former military. The other half (just more than half, actually) is spent on actual defense.
Posted by wdhalgren
Member since May 2013
4647 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 1:01 pm to
There are really only a few facts you need to understand about debt. Everything else is fluff.

1) Debt, both in the US and globally is massively unpayable in current value terms of the currencies in which it's denominated. That means the debt is worthless.

2) Central banks everywhere have vowed to do "whatever it takes" to prevent the massively unpayable debt from outright default, and they're multiple decades into that course of action. That means the currencies of those central banks are also worthless, which was always inevitable.

3) Central banks and governments are managing this currency default in such a way as to strip mine the assets of their middle class, which will be progressively forced into poverty and dependency. The beneficiaries of that process are a relative handful of global "oligarchs" who wield power over politicians and central banks.

4) All of the global political chaos, corruption, class warfare, real warfare, etc., is due to government rulers and "oligarchs" jockeying to improve their personal outcomes when this financial house of cards collapses.

5)If you're looking for someone to blame, you're wasting your time. A quick read of history demonstrates that this is just the messy way that evolution works at the top of the food chain. Winners and losers are hard to predict despite the best laid plans of mice and men.
This post was edited on 1/15/17 at 3:13 pm
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 1:12 pm to
quote:

Actually, it's even more. Almost half of the generic "military" number is to provide healthcare and lifetime pensions for former military. The other half (just more than half, actually) is spent on actual defense.


Exactly.
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 1:19 pm to
quote:

Winners and losers are hard to predict despite the best laid plans of mice and men.


True...until we go to a cashless system Then the only winners is the government.
There are counties already transitioning to that, with little reported in the press..(surprise..surprise). In some places you can't buy a loaf of bread with cash. The vendor will not accept it. Once that happens your life will be under total control of the government..there will be no underground economy or people working for cash. It will have no value nor any place to use it.
Posted by CaptainBrannigan
Good Ole Rocky Top Tennessee
Member since Jan 2010
21644 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 1:20 pm to
quote:

Plenty of money was wasted by the dear leader. He doubled the debt in 8 years.


Spending is controlled by Congress. Bet you love Paul'Big Spender' Ryan.
Posted by Loserman
Member since Sep 2007
23057 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 1:28 pm to
quote:

I thought that the 20 trillion was money that we borrowed from china.


No most of our debt is owed to ourselves.

Social Security is close to 3 Trillion
Government pensions around 1 Trillion
Military Retirement 800 billion
3 trillion to the Fed


Total Foreign debt is around 6 Trillion.

We owe less than 2 Trillion to China.
1.3 Trillion to Japan
This post was edited on 1/15/17 at 1:31 pm
Posted by Tigerdev
Member since Feb 2013
12287 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 1:34 pm to
I think if you took the time to do even a bit of research you would already know that the programs you are talking about wouldn't even put a dent in the deficit. Military spending, corporate welfare, medicare, social security. Conservatives have never and will never have the balls to touch any of it. You've been sold a bill of dog shite and you lap it up like a ravenous sewer rat.
Posted by wdhalgren
Member since May 2013
4647 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 1:54 pm to
quote:

True...until we go to a cashless system Then the only winners is the government.


I've seen a lot of hand wringing about the death of cash, but it's not a foregone conclusion IMO. At least not in the near term. The main reason for eliminating cash would be to enable negative nominal interest rates, but that would immediately reveal the confiscatory nature of our monetary system to the broad public. It's much easier to keep real (inflation adjusted) interest rates negative and dropping by allowing them to progressively lag a rising rate of inflation. The public remains blissfully ignorant to that "inflation tax" as Ben Bernanke called it.

Plus, despite all the talk of ties between currency and corruption/terrorism, etc., the bulk of that activity transpires at the level of politicians and their wealthy owners. It's hard for me to see them giving away one of their biggest advantages, which is opacity in money flows, until we've reached the very end game. If we do go cashless, you'll know either the gig is up, or the system of tracking the fully electronic money is fatally compromised from the outset. Either way, it does nothing to change the final outcome of governments losing control as populations grow progressively destitute.
This post was edited on 1/15/17 at 2:24 pm
Posted by Crimson Wraith
Member since Jan 2014
29473 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 2:13 pm to
quote:

quote:
Plenty of money was wasted by the dear leader. He doubled the debt in 8 years.


Spending is controlled by Congress.




Not when you have a phone and a pen, are the first half black pres and the MSM toting your water.

dims also controlled all three branches for his first two years and accomplished nothing but more debt.
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 2:24 pm to
quote:

Not when you have a phone and a pen, are the first half black pres and the MSM toting your water.

Exactly. How many years did the Senate go without providing a budget?
Posted by PaperTiger
Ruston, LA
Member since Feb 2015
26353 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 2:41 pm to
The first thing that needs to happen is Congress signing off on a balanced budget. How this is not required is beyond me.
Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

The first thing that needs to happen is Congress signing off on a balanced budget. How this is not required is beyond me.


First thing that needs to happen: currency no longer created as debt by private companies, and remove the internationally owned private company (the FED) from running our monetary system.

Create currency as a simple means of exchange, not as automatic debt with the intent to control.

This is the core of the apple, but nobody really talks about it much.

Posted by Eurocat
Member since Apr 2004
16624 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 3:57 pm to
Yawn.

It's something I'll let my kids worry about. Not my problem.
Posted by BamaAtl
South of North
Member since Dec 2009
22253 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 4:07 pm to
quote:

Spending is controlled by Congress.



Not when...


No, still then. It's uncomfortable for you guys, but Republicans love spending money and telling you they hate it.
Posted by FutureRATeammember
Member since Jan 2015
4300 posts
Posted on 1/15/17 at 4:08 pm to
Reality is dems are at their lowest point since the 1920s

Thanks obama!
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