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Message
Practical questions about educational scholarship accounts in Louisiana
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:04 am
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:04 am
Look, I understand the emotional and philosophical argument behind parents getting some of their tax money for private schools. And in some ways, I agree with it.
But there are two practical considerations I just can't get past, yet.
1) Government subsidies ALWAYS increase cost. Solar panels, electric cars, easy federal student loans, etc, all of these things have clearly shown to distort and increase cost to the consumer.
If the state starts giving away $5K to each child for private school tuition, woudn't we just see tution costs increase by $5K, ultimately resulting in a net zero savings to the parent?
Perhaps with an additional $5K per child, the private school can have better educational outcomes. But I just don't see how this saves parents any money, or allows additional students to be able to now afford private schools.
Ulimately, I guess this does not help, or hurt, anyone.
2) Where is the money going to come from? If costs go up as explained in #1, and thus, most of the students who end up getting this money are currently in private schools, or would be attending private schools anyways, then the state is not going to see any reduction in the number of public school students.
Let's say the state spends $11K on a publlic school student, and the account is worth $5K. For every child that leaves the public system and goes private, the state saves $6K. That's good news.
However, for a ton, perhaps the vast majority of the kids who will get this money, the state now has to pay $5K where previously, they were paying $0. Where's rhe money going to come from?
Surely we won't raise taxes, so where do you propose the spending cuts come from?
I'm sure I will get a lot of downvotes here becuase I'm asking intelligent questions, but I'm really curious what the impact has been in other states. Remember, LA has a higher percentage of non-public students than any other state.
But there are two practical considerations I just can't get past, yet.
1) Government subsidies ALWAYS increase cost. Solar panels, electric cars, easy federal student loans, etc, all of these things have clearly shown to distort and increase cost to the consumer.
If the state starts giving away $5K to each child for private school tuition, woudn't we just see tution costs increase by $5K, ultimately resulting in a net zero savings to the parent?
Perhaps with an additional $5K per child, the private school can have better educational outcomes. But I just don't see how this saves parents any money, or allows additional students to be able to now afford private schools.
Ulimately, I guess this does not help, or hurt, anyone.
2) Where is the money going to come from? If costs go up as explained in #1, and thus, most of the students who end up getting this money are currently in private schools, or would be attending private schools anyways, then the state is not going to see any reduction in the number of public school students.
Let's say the state spends $11K on a publlic school student, and the account is worth $5K. For every child that leaves the public system and goes private, the state saves $6K. That's good news.
However, for a ton, perhaps the vast majority of the kids who will get this money, the state now has to pay $5K where previously, they were paying $0. Where's rhe money going to come from?
Surely we won't raise taxes, so where do you propose the spending cuts come from?
I'm sure I will get a lot of downvotes here becuase I'm asking intelligent questions, but I'm really curious what the impact has been in other states. Remember, LA has a higher percentage of non-public students than any other state.
11
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:12 am to LSUFanHouston
Duck. You're questioning a handout these "conservatives" love.
quote:Would pay for six weeks of Catholic school for ONE kid, not 2-4 kids.
parents getting some of their tax money for private schools
This post was edited on 3/19/24 at 11:14 am
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:15 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:Otherwise, good questions.
the emotional and philosophical argument behind parents getting some of their tax money for private schools
A bit ironic that the state has us desiring for them to NOT provide education.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:43 am to Jake88
quote:
Duck. You're questioning a handout these "conservatives" love.
We will see how much they love it, if their other handouts get cut as a result of it.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:54 am to LSUFanHouston
you talking about the voucher program where the money follows the student so the schools have to actually compete to get the students money?
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:58 am to Pezzo
quote:
you talking about the voucher program where the money follows the student so the schools have to actually compete to get the students money?
I don't know how much competition will be going on, because of what I posted above.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 12:05 pm to LSUFanHouston
the program is supposed to be cash neutral. the money follows the student. so if a hundred kids go from public to private then that public school doesn't get the same amount of funding. therefore they need to figure out a way to keep kids at their school.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 12:11 pm to LSUFanHouston
It will absolutely increase cost of private schools, and increase state funding over time. Similar to TOPS program.
And it will attract a lot of privately owned for profit schools . Some will be ok but a lot will be worse than the public schools, and just money grabs.
And it will attract a lot of privately owned for profit schools . Some will be ok but a lot will be worse than the public schools, and just money grabs.
This post was edited on 3/19/24 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 3/19/24 at 12:13 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
However, for a ton, perhaps the vast majority of the kids who will get this money, the state now has to pay $5K where previously, they were paying $0. Where's rhe money going to come from?
This is THE question.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 12:13 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
If the state starts giving away $5K to each child for private school tuition, woudn't we just see tution costs increase by $5K, ultimately resulting in a net zero savings to the parent?
This would easily be inevitable. Only the rich and wealthy parents would still have access to private school without breaking the bank.
This post was edited on 3/19/24 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 3/19/24 at 12:25 pm to Pezzo
quote:
the program is supposed to be cash neutral. the money follows the student. so if a hundred kids go from public to private then that public school doesn't get the same amount of funding. therefore they need to figure out a way to keep kids at their school.
Now go back and actually read the OP
Posted on 3/19/24 at 12:36 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
However, for a ton, perhaps the vast majority of the kids who will get this money, the state now has to pay $5K where previously, they were paying $0. Where's rhe money going to come from?
Parents whose kids go to private school still pay taxes. So that money is always there. If your kid goes to private school, the public schools in the district in which you reside get that portion of the tax money. So it is never zero. Now that portion that would otherwise go to public education would then go to whatever school your kid goes to.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 12:43 pm to LSUFanHouston
And the Archdiocese will arise from Bankruptcy like the Great Phoenix.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 12:48 pm to dangerousdon
This is the op’s attempt at another gotcha moment. The op is worried about exactly what you just posted in that the taxes those of us that send our kids to catholic school pay would be no more for the public system. In other words, the public school system is broken and now there’s a potential for the parents (those that actually work and pay taxes) to take matters into their own hands and have a choice on where to send their kids to school and have the tax money follow them.
I wish I would’ve had that option over the past 20 plus years because I’d much prefer my tax money go to my kids Catholic school instead of being wasted on public school students and teachers that are only there for lunch, free babysitting, or to collect a check and then milk the state AND the taxpayers.
I wish something like this would’ve been in place a long time ago. The public system wastes the taxpayer money they fleece from us so let’s take that from them and the public system can learn to live within their means and trim the useless and excess fat.
I wish I would’ve had that option over the past 20 plus years because I’d much prefer my tax money go to my kids Catholic school instead of being wasted on public school students and teachers that are only there for lunch, free babysitting, or to collect a check and then milk the state AND the taxpayers.
I wish something like this would’ve been in place a long time ago. The public system wastes the taxpayer money they fleece from us so let’s take that from them and the public system can learn to live within their means and trim the useless and excess fat.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 1:03 pm to 31TIGERS
quote:
Parents whose kids go to private school still pay taxes. So that money is always there. If your kid goes to private school, the public schools in the district in which you reside get that portion of the tax money. So it is never zero. Now that portion that would otherwise go to public education would then go to whatever school your kid goes to.
quote:
This is the op’s attempt at another gotcha moment. The op is worried about exactly what you just posted in that the taxes those of us that send our kids to catholic school pay would be no more for the public system. In other words, the public school system is broken and now there’s a potential for the parents (those that actually work and pay taxes) to take matters into their own hands and have a choice on where to send their kids to school and have the tax money follow them.
I wish I would’ve had that option over the past 20 plus years because I’d much prefer my tax money go to my kids Catholic school instead of being wasted on public school students and teachers that are only there for lunch, free babysitting, or to collect a check and then milk the state AND the taxpayers.
I wish something like this would’ve been in place a long time ago. The public system wastes the taxpayer money they fleece from us so let’s take that from them and the public system can learn to live within their means and trim the useless and excess fat.
Ah yes, the "Why do I have to pay taxes for services I don't use" argument.
Can people who don't have kids get that money back?
Can people on private health insurance who didn't use Medicaid get that money back?
Posted on 3/19/24 at 1:08 pm to LSUFanHouston
Great post!
I paid ~$1300 in property taxes to EBR schools last year. The mechanics of receiving my portion etc and net neutral like others have stated can not make sense. Average EBR per student spent is ~$13k.
I paid ~$1300 in property taxes to EBR schools last year. The mechanics of receiving my portion etc and net neutral like others have stated can not make sense. Average EBR per student spent is ~$13k.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 1:11 pm to 31TIGERS
quote:
have the tax money follow them.
What tax money?? Genuinely curious what you are referring to.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 1:12 pm to dangerousdon
quote:
Now that portion that would otherwise go to public education would then go to whatever school your kid goes to.
Which portion?
Posted on 3/19/24 at 1:35 pm to dangerousdon
quote:
Parents whose kids go to private school still pay taxes. So that money is always there. If your kid goes to private school, the public schools in the district in which you reside get that portion of the tax money. So it is never zero. Now that portion that would otherwise go to public education would then go to whatever school your kid goes to.
Parents pay ZERO state dedicated school taxes in Louisiana. None.
All of the state money comes out of the general fund.
Yes, the local school district collects local dedicated property taxes for schools, but that money isn't part of this program.
The only way this doesn't cost the state more is to the effect that public school kids leave public schools for private schools. And as posted in the OP, I don't see that happening very much in Louisiana.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 1:43 pm to 31TIGERS
quote:
This is the op’s attempt at another gotcha moment. The op is worried about exactly what you just posted in that the taxes those of us that send our kids to catholic school pay would be no more for the public system. In other words, the public school system is broken and now there’s a potential for the parents (those that actually work and pay taxes) to take matters into their own hands and have a choice on where to send their kids to school and have the tax money follow them.
Now that you have finished peeing all over yourself, maybe you should actually read the OP and respond to the questions posted.
As I said to another poster, there is ZERO state taxes that you pay that are dedicated to K-12 education. None. The state's entire share of K-12 education expenses is paid out of the general fund.
Paying for these accounts is not a matter of money following the child. That's not how we fund things in Louisiana.
If we are spending 1 billion of state money on 100K public student kids, now, we are going to be spending 1 billion of state mone on 100K public school kids, PLUS $5K on whatever how many kids we have that attend private schools.
By the way, this is a problem that we were going to have to deal with at some point. If all of the private school students in this state said F it, we going to public school, it would create a MASSIVE hole in the state budget. Because now the state would need to pay for the education of a lot more kids, with no offsetting increase in revenue.
Having so many kids in private school allows the state to underinvest in public school education.
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