re: Opiod addicts will not be covered under TrumpCare

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There is not much that can be done about it...except throw money at it, which typically won't help.

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That's my belief. This falls under the "We need to do SOMETHING, ANYTHING" and is basically feel good legislation.

My brother is an addict and is basically lost as a human. My parents have spent a huge amount of money on multiple rehabs that have been a complete waste.

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The alternative is to eventually lock them up and cost you more money. Why are you not concerned about that cost to you?

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This assumes so many things that are not supported.

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brother is an addict and is basically lost as a human. My parents have spent a huge amount of money on multiple rehabs that have been a complete waste.

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The alternative is to eventually pay for him to be incarcerated or dead. Maybe locking him up will be what helps him. I'm not advocating enabling, but treatment is generally much cheaper and much more effective than prison.

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This assumes so many things that are not supported.

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Such as? Are you saying the cost of incarceration is cheaper than treatment?

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No, it's not. Methadone treatment is ~$5000/yr. It's efficacy rate in treating opioid addiction hovers charitably at 10%. So it takes at least $50,000 (probably much more) to "cure" one person of opioid addiction through methadone treatment. The other 9 aren't cured either and are still a cost to the system despite it all. They may come back for another round of methadone treatment or go on to offend.

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Methadone treatment is a thing of the past and very few opiod addicts go on it now with new medications like buprenorphine. And methadone and buprenorphine are replacement therapies, they are opioids. Essentially it's treating opiod addiction with more addictive opiods. And these are just two versions of treatment, their is also inpateint rehabilitation.

And do you think you can incarcerate someone for less than 5k a year?

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Telling an opiod addict to "be a man and just stop taking it" is about as effective as telling someone with diareah "be a man and hold it in, come on, don't be a wuss".

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So, if I lock each in a room without any opioids or toilets, the former is still going to get high and the latter is still going to shite himself?

Let's not go off the rails on a crazy train.

Do some folks have a greater propensity than others towards addictive behavior, generally, and substance addiction, specifically?

Certainly. Only a fool would deny that. But to equate an addict lying, stealing, robbing, and, yes, killing to get a fix or even a prescription pill addict engaging in immoral or illegal behavior to a person with intestinal symptoms (or, I assume you would also equate it to a fever?) just makes it awfully easy to dismiss your logic as unsound.

Why do I say this? Because extreme, hard core addicts HAVE kicked the habit with varying degrees of success. Smokers have kicked cold turkey. Ditto for alcoholics. While addiction may not be 100% within the persons control (and I am not sympathetic to those who grew up with no other examples than addiction as well as those who might have gotten hooked by their doctor overprescribing medication, particularly opioids and benzos), sobriety really is.

It really is.

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It requires medical treatment and is not just a question of willpower.

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In some cases, I would agree - heroin withdrawal is highly dangerous and must be medically managed to be safe. I get that. I don't get having them hooked on Methadone for the rest of their lives.

However, without willpower, there is never going to be a good outcome. It is a combination of willpower and other support structures (IMHO).

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In some cases, I would agree - heroin withdrawal is highly dangerous and must be medically managed to be safe. I get that. I don't get having them hooked on Methadone for the rest of their lives.

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Actually alcohol and benzodiazepine withdrawal is much more dangerous and kills people. Opiate withdrawal just makes you think you are gonna die. Opiate withdrawal rarely ever kills someone but still needs to be medically supervised

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is a combination of willpower and other support structures (IMHO)

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Most people with the disease of addiction need to be medically helped in a medical environment to get through the early withdrawals. After that it is certainly about willingness and outside help.


You missed the other posters point

Would the money spent on damages plus the cost of the remaining remaining damage be less than 56 billion? What if the cost goes down slightly? The. It's worth it from a purely financial stand point. What if it goes up slightly but helps 1000's of people?

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What is yours in since you want to exchange qualifications?

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My degree is in Classics. Just wanted to verify yours was in the social sciences.