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Message
re: Not a word about Custer
Posted on 6/25/17 at 8:39 pm to WhiskeyPapa
Posted on 6/25/17 at 8:39 pm to WhiskeyPapa
I didn't realize so many of the troopers were immigrants until I visited out there,mostly Irish, 45% or so of the total
1
Posted on 6/25/17 at 8:41 pm to EKG
There are a half dozen movies about Custer.
Patton. One.
Washington. None really.
Ike. Maybe a couple.
Patton. One.
Washington. None really.
Ike. Maybe a couple.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 8:42 pm to gthog61
Many barely spoke english at all. If I remember right a
Prvt Martini took the last message from Custer could barely speak english.
Prvt Martini took the last message from Custer could barely speak english.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 8:44 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
Custer is the only soldier most Americans can even name.
Most Americans have never heard of Custer.
Now if you had said Eisenhower, Patton, McArthur, etc etc you might have had me.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 8:47 pm to goatmilker
One of the major misconceptions of the Little Bighorn fight is that Custer was shot down in a midstream charge while crossing the river. The idea stems from two sources: one was the Lakota White Cow Bull, and the other was two Crow scouts who were not there. Many other Indian eyewitnesses who were there never said anything of the sort.
Two Moon said that Cheyenne guards were already posted on the east bank when Custer rode down. In addition, many Lakotas had already crossed to the east side. Warriors were across the river, some going upstream and some downstream, trying to get on each side of the soldiers.
Yellow Nose said he and his companions were already on the east side of the river when the soldiers first fired at them.
From the east bank of the river, White Shield saw that the troops were heading straight for them, and he believed they would break through and get across the river. When the Gray Horses (Company E) got close to the river, they dismounted, and both sides fired at each other.
Bobtail Horse said the soldiers began shooting as they neared the ford leading to the camp. He said: “Let us get in line behind this ridge and try to stop or turn them. If they get in camp they will kill many women.” Bobtail Horse said that his “party had not advanced toward Custer, but were on the bank of the Little Horn on the same side as Custer.”
The soldiers advanced, but, “the ten Indians were firing as hard as they could and killed a soldier,” Bobtail Horse explained. The man’s horse ran on ahead, and Bobtail Horse caught it. The soldiers finally stopped. This all happened on the east bank.
Red Hawk was fighting Reno’s men, but went north in time to see a second group of soldiers coming down the ridge in three divisions. They did not make it to the river, he said. The first division only got to a point about one-half to three-quarters of a mile from the water.
Lone Bear said the soldiers got near the river, dismounted and began leading their horses, but they never got to the river. Lone Bear watched as large numbers of warriors, both mounted and on foot, crossed over to the east bank and started after Custer before he reached the stream.
More warriors indicated the confrontation occurred east of the river. Kill Eagle said, “The Indians crossed the creek and then the firing commenced.” Wooden Leg said that the first three Cheyennes to cross the river were Bobtail Horse, Roan Bear and Buffalo Calf, and they fired on Custer while he was “far out on the ridge.” He Dog said 15 or 20 Indians fought the troopers from the east side of the stream – near the dry creek, but not near the river. Standing Bear also said that the Indians crossed the river as soon as Custer came in sight. They took position behind a low ridge and were reinforced rapidly as more warriors crossed over. “There was no fighting on the creek,” Standing Bear said. Bobtail Horse, who was right there, indicated without hesitation that they were all on the east bank, on the same side as Custer. Two years after the fight, Hump, Brave Wolf and Ice told 5th Infantry Lieutenant Oscar F. Long that the Indians crossed the river before Custer could possibly have forded. They had already gained a small hill on the north side of the Little Bighorn and placed themselves between Custer and the river.
It is clear from the explanations of the Indians who were there that Custer’s soldiers never got across the river, or even into it; the Indians were already on the east (north) bank fighting them. Where do we get the idea that Custer was killed in the river? Mostly from White Cow Bull. His story has caused more mischief than almost any of the tales that have been circulated about the battle.
It is only White Cow Bull who supposedly said that he and Bobtail Horse shot a buckskin-clad soldier in the river. Neither Bobtail Horse nor any of the other Indians who were there mention anything of the sort – they don’t even say White Cow Bull was there. Yet, White Cow Bull says that he, almost single-handed, stopped a full-scale cavalry charge in midstream. No other Lakota or Cheyenne saw it. They were not fighting on the river, but east of it. White Cow Bull’s story is just that – bull.
The Crow scouts Goes Ahead and White Man Runs Him reportedly told stories of Custer dying in the river. Goes Ahead’s tale comes from his wife, Pretty Shield, who was not there either, but said little other than Custer drank too much and rode into the river and died. White Man Runs Him did not see Custer, but heard later that Custer was hit in the chest by a bullet and fell into the water. From such tales grew the myth that Custer was killed at the river. It did not happen.
Two Moon said that Cheyenne guards were already posted on the east bank when Custer rode down. In addition, many Lakotas had already crossed to the east side. Warriors were across the river, some going upstream and some downstream, trying to get on each side of the soldiers.
Yellow Nose said he and his companions were already on the east side of the river when the soldiers first fired at them.
From the east bank of the river, White Shield saw that the troops were heading straight for them, and he believed they would break through and get across the river. When the Gray Horses (Company E) got close to the river, they dismounted, and both sides fired at each other.
Bobtail Horse said the soldiers began shooting as they neared the ford leading to the camp. He said: “Let us get in line behind this ridge and try to stop or turn them. If they get in camp they will kill many women.” Bobtail Horse said that his “party had not advanced toward Custer, but were on the bank of the Little Horn on the same side as Custer.”
The soldiers advanced, but, “the ten Indians were firing as hard as they could and killed a soldier,” Bobtail Horse explained. The man’s horse ran on ahead, and Bobtail Horse caught it. The soldiers finally stopped. This all happened on the east bank.
Red Hawk was fighting Reno’s men, but went north in time to see a second group of soldiers coming down the ridge in three divisions. They did not make it to the river, he said. The first division only got to a point about one-half to three-quarters of a mile from the water.
Lone Bear said the soldiers got near the river, dismounted and began leading their horses, but they never got to the river. Lone Bear watched as large numbers of warriors, both mounted and on foot, crossed over to the east bank and started after Custer before he reached the stream.
More warriors indicated the confrontation occurred east of the river. Kill Eagle said, “The Indians crossed the creek and then the firing commenced.” Wooden Leg said that the first three Cheyennes to cross the river were Bobtail Horse, Roan Bear and Buffalo Calf, and they fired on Custer while he was “far out on the ridge.” He Dog said 15 or 20 Indians fought the troopers from the east side of the stream – near the dry creek, but not near the river. Standing Bear also said that the Indians crossed the river as soon as Custer came in sight. They took position behind a low ridge and were reinforced rapidly as more warriors crossed over. “There was no fighting on the creek,” Standing Bear said. Bobtail Horse, who was right there, indicated without hesitation that they were all on the east bank, on the same side as Custer. Two years after the fight, Hump, Brave Wolf and Ice told 5th Infantry Lieutenant Oscar F. Long that the Indians crossed the river before Custer could possibly have forded. They had already gained a small hill on the north side of the Little Bighorn and placed themselves between Custer and the river.
It is clear from the explanations of the Indians who were there that Custer’s soldiers never got across the river, or even into it; the Indians were already on the east (north) bank fighting them. Where do we get the idea that Custer was killed in the river? Mostly from White Cow Bull. His story has caused more mischief than almost any of the tales that have been circulated about the battle.
It is only White Cow Bull who supposedly said that he and Bobtail Horse shot a buckskin-clad soldier in the river. Neither Bobtail Horse nor any of the other Indians who were there mention anything of the sort – they don’t even say White Cow Bull was there. Yet, White Cow Bull says that he, almost single-handed, stopped a full-scale cavalry charge in midstream. No other Lakota or Cheyenne saw it. They were not fighting on the river, but east of it. White Cow Bull’s story is just that – bull.
The Crow scouts Goes Ahead and White Man Runs Him reportedly told stories of Custer dying in the river. Goes Ahead’s tale comes from his wife, Pretty Shield, who was not there either, but said little other than Custer drank too much and rode into the river and died. White Man Runs Him did not see Custer, but heard later that Custer was hit in the chest by a bullet and fell into the water. From such tales grew the myth that Custer was killed at the river. It did not happen.
This post was edited on 6/25/17 at 8:48 pm
Posted on 6/25/17 at 8:50 pm to TupeloTiger
Seems like I remember that Custer was offered a gatling gun but turned it down and therefore didn't have it when the indians came for his scalp.
Bet he wished he would have had it about the time they started riding into view.
And why do so many blast the South for its treatment of blacks while ignoring what the North /US did to the Indians?
Bet he wished he would have had it about the time they started riding into view.
And why do so many blast the South for its treatment of blacks while ignoring what the North /US did to the Indians?
This post was edited on 6/25/17 at 8:53 pm
Posted on 6/25/17 at 8:55 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Visited in the mid-90's - still isn't shite out there by Little Bighorn.
I thought it was awesome. The hill with the markers is a must for any fan of history.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 8:57 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
National geographic did a great job on a story about mapping the cartridges spent on the battlefield. Three main areas of defense emerged. I will try to find it.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 9:08 pm to asurob1
quote:
Most Americans have never heard of Custer.
That's not remotely true.
As I posted earlier:
This was like in every bar in America:
People might not know anything about Custer but they sure AS HELL...
Know the phrase - CUSTER's LAST STAND!
Just like they know about the mythical chopping down of the cherry tree.
I mean it's pop culture.
If you don't know Custer, you are a fricking idiot.
This post was edited on 6/25/17 at 9:10 pm
Posted on 6/25/17 at 9:11 pm to goatmilker
quote:Saw a documentary using the same methodology. Very well done. Shows the running fight that ends with the massacre at the end.
National geographic did a great job on a story about mapping the cartridges spent on the battlefield.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 9:12 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:You are going to be sadly disappointed unfortunately.
If you don't know Custer, you are a fricking idiot.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 9:23 pm to goatmilker
quote:
The best evidence suggests that Custer was crossing the river into the village with 5 companies when he was shot.
Curious as to where this comes from as almost everything I've read says different.
"The troopers were led, she told her grandson, by an officer in a buckskin coat, and he was 'the first one to get hit.'" ...Sylvester Knows Gun maintained this was Custer and he was dead by the time he reached Last Stand Hill."
-- "The Last Stand: Custer, Sitting Bull, and the Battle of the Little Bighorn" by Nathaniel Philbrick P. 257
Custer's body was mutilated. But it had a gunshot wound to the chest and another with powder burns, to the temple.
This post was edited on 6/25/17 at 9:27 pm
Posted on 6/25/17 at 9:25 pm to WhiskeyPapa
We get it, you hate America
Why keep starting troll threads
Why keep starting troll threads
Posted on 6/25/17 at 9:29 pm to el Gaucho
quote:
Why keep starting troll threads
I start very few threads. But it is always the right time to make fun of the Army.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 9:31 pm to WhiskeyPapa
We will keep that in mind land component of the Department of the Navy. 
Posted on 6/25/17 at 9:32 pm to WhiskeyPapa
Movements of the 7th Cavalry
A: Custer B: Reno C: Benteen D: Yates E: Weir
This is a cool gif if it works.
LINK
Try this link if it doesn't.
This post was edited on 6/25/17 at 9:33 pm
Posted on 6/25/17 at 9:36 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
We will keep that in mind land component of the Department of the Navy.
There are two great commandments in the Marine Corps, just as there are in the Bible.
The first great commandment is: Thou shalt make fun of the Army. And the second great commandment is likewise unto the first: Thou shalt make fun of the Navy.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 9:41 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
..they died in a running battle.
Correct.
False. They circled up on the side of that hill and waited for the Indians to annihilate them. And that happened in short order.
This post was edited on 6/25/17 at 9:42 pm
Posted on 6/25/17 at 9:45 pm to WhiskeyPapa
Do you enjoy being an obstinate arse? Is this what I have to look forward to when I am old and worthless? Or is this just a bitter old Marine thing?
ETA: My apologies for being so crude, but it just seems that every halfway decent OP you make turns into a troll fest when anyone remotely disagrees with you. You seem like a sad, bitter man who has to be right in everything he says. Wishing you nothing but peace.
ETA: My apologies for being so crude, but it just seems that every halfway decent OP you make turns into a troll fest when anyone remotely disagrees with you. You seem like a sad, bitter man who has to be right in everything he says. Wishing you nothing but peace.
This post was edited on 6/26/17 at 4:00 am
Posted on 6/25/17 at 9:47 pm to Wolfhound45
Some good recent books about this. On my phone or I would link them. At least one trooper escaped the battle but died of his wounds. His body was found a few miles away.
There were many who claimed to be survivors, almost all debunked. However, there is one possible candidate whose story mostly checks out. Fearing he would be charged with desertion, he only came forward many years later. It is not a sure thing, but the chances are at least 50-50 he was legit.
The Indians hated Tom Custer most of all. They left George's body alone but mutilated Tom so badly he could only be identified by his initials tattooed on his forearm.
Custers plan ended disastrously, but it was not tactically unsound. The Indians rarely stood and fought, so the idea was always to catch them before they could escape. This time they didnt run. Gatling guns would have helped Custer survive, but inly because they would have slowed him down so much he neverwould have found the Indians.
LBH was direct payback for the "Battle" of the Washitaw, when Custer's command perpetrated a massacre on a Cheyenne village who thought they were under a flag of truce. Many survivors of that massacre werexat LBH and took their revenge.What goes around comes around.
The proximate cause of this campaign was the US's abrogation of a treaty granting the Black Hills in perpetuity. Perpetuity only lasted until the discovery of gold.
Wont be a popular view on the poliboard, but the Indians were in the right. Custer had it coming.
There were many who claimed to be survivors, almost all debunked. However, there is one possible candidate whose story mostly checks out. Fearing he would be charged with desertion, he only came forward many years later. It is not a sure thing, but the chances are at least 50-50 he was legit.
The Indians hated Tom Custer most of all. They left George's body alone but mutilated Tom so badly he could only be identified by his initials tattooed on his forearm.
Custers plan ended disastrously, but it was not tactically unsound. The Indians rarely stood and fought, so the idea was always to catch them before they could escape. This time they didnt run. Gatling guns would have helped Custer survive, but inly because they would have slowed him down so much he neverwould have found the Indians.
LBH was direct payback for the "Battle" of the Washitaw, when Custer's command perpetrated a massacre on a Cheyenne village who thought they were under a flag of truce. Many survivors of that massacre werexat LBH and took their revenge.What goes around comes around.
The proximate cause of this campaign was the US's abrogation of a treaty granting the Black Hills in perpetuity. Perpetuity only lasted until the discovery of gold.
Wont be a popular view on the poliboard, but the Indians were in the right. Custer had it coming.
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