re: Mosul has been liberated

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Isis grew from the conflict in Libya, so...I assume, yes, the CIA and state department would have still delivered 100s of trucks, 1000s of guns and millions to overthrow Qaddafi...

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As someone already said, Saddam was the king of crushing these militant groups in his country. There would also be no need for a group like ISIS since Saddam was already a brutal Sunni dictator.

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You realize he was operating on the plan and timetable for pulling out already put in place by the Bush administration, right? Obama was elected with a mandate to get out of Iraq and the plan was already in motion before he took office.

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Wrong.

Obama ran on a new plan to address the World's troubled zones: Palestine, North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Peace through superior negotiation abilities!

Palestine, Arab/Israeli negotiations under Obama's superior skills fared no better than the Bush-Clinton-Bush period. In desperation, Obama massively interfered in the Israeli election but Bibi's victory ended his efforts.

North Korea, Obama liked W's failed Six Party negotiations framework. Hillary, Bill Clinton, and Jimmy Carter failed for eight years. Kim sank ships, fired artillery shells, tested nuclear warheads, and fired long range missiles. In 2016, Obama administration declared defeat.

Iran, Obama spent years being outmatched at the negotiating tables. He finally agreed to give billions of dollars and a freehand to Iran so that he could waive an agreement around like Chamberlain.

Afghanistan, Obama kept trying to close it down like Gitmo. And like Gitmo he failed. Gitmo still has detainees, and Afghanistan still has American and NATO forces. America is better off for this.

Iraq, poor Iraq. When Obama took office in January 2009, he inherited a plan that President George W. Bush forged in 2008 with then-Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. That Status of Forces Agreement called for the withdrawal of all American troops by the end of 2011.

It was widely assumed a new plan would be negotiated after the 2008 version expired in 2011. There were no stipulations about a specific number of American military personnel to be left behind.

Obama ran on the campaign pledge of bringing a responsible end to the Iraq War, and announced shortly after taking office that combat operations would end in 2010. A high of 168,000 U.S. service members were in the country after the 2007 surge, drawing down to about 43,000 after combat troops left in 2010.

He said in October 2011 almost all troops would be home by Christmas. About 200 Marines would stay to train the Iraqi army and act as security for diplomatic personnel. In short, he kept the 2011 timeline Bush and al-Maliki had chosen.

When it came time to renegotiate a new agreement, there was little consensus on whether a residual force should stay in the country. Military leaders in Baghdad and the Pentagon pushed for as many as 24,000, but the White House rejected that amount. (For the record, U.S. forces in South Korea number more than 28,500.)

Obama reportedly did consider leaving up to 10,000 troops in strategic locations after the exit, but that plan faced opposition both in the United States and in Iraq. Obama ruled out a force that size during an August 2011 conference call. Finally, Obama declared the end of negotiations claiming that he couldn't negotiate immunity of Americans from Iraqi law.

He pulled completely out (not Bush's long term plan) and ISIS the JV team flourished. America has re-entered and ISIS is shrinking.

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They are there also helping advise them.

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Advising usually means hardcore military action in todays vernacular.

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But Cuba, North Korea, Iran, and Pre 2003 Iraq were and are not preferable for us! So while all brutal dictators suppress their people, they are not necessarily good for us.

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Pre-2003 Iraq was absolutely preferable for us just for the fact that they offered regional stability. That's not even a controversial assessment.

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Imagine Iraq under Uday and North Korea under Kim allied against us today.

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NK has an alliance with Iran. I don't see Iraq getting in on that alliance.

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Now add Assad as Iraq's Ba'ath ally, and throw in Russian resurgence into the region. Sprinkle in Chinese intransigence, and one gets one hell of a brutal dictator stew!

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All thanks to us taking out Saddam.

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Mosul has been liberated

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Just as TRUMP and Putin get together!

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Now politics will reign supreme instead of death and destruction.

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Well, if Iraqi history is any indicator of the future, politics = death and destruction.

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Would there have been an isis if we never invaded Iraq?

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McCain would have invented them on his own.

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Sounds like Trump's plan is working - let the locals solve the problems and help them to do that.

MAGA

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Dude...



Nvm, I'll let you have your delusions.

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Would there have been an isis if we never invaded Iraq?

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Probably not. The invasion of Iraq wrecked the stability of the region. It would appear that this was the objective of the Bush Administration and its cheer leaders. In that sense the invasion of Iraq was a complete success.

The one thing Saddam Hussein was good at was thuggery. He was a great thug. His security apparatus kept a tight lid on all unrest and wannabee jihadis. We unleashed all that, probably as an Israeli proxy, since their military couldn't do it and besides - they never pay retail.

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Well, if Iraqi history is any indicator of the future, politics = death and destruction.

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I'm not saying there won't be death and destruction. I'm just saying that there won't be a war. There will still be terror attacks and there will still be heated issues to deal with but there won't be systematic death and destruction by an organization like Daesh. Iraq now has a chance to deal with their issues politically instead of simply trying to stay alive in a war.