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Started By
Message
Mental health is the issue
Posted on 10/6/17 at 6:49 pm
Posted on 10/6/17 at 6:49 pm
And while I firmly believe there are gun control measures that would make it more difficult for crazy people and criminals to get a gun addressing gun control in a vacuum without simultaneously talking about mental illness is doing us all a grave disservice.
We, as a nation, were founded by crazy people...the folks who stayed in Europe and Asia and now Mexico and Central America think and thought that anyone who would roll the dice and immigrate is crazy.....it is much more common to be risk adverse and stay put than move.....it's easy to imagine telling your neighbor that you are going to America and your risk adverse neighbor telling you you are crazy! Americans have been doing crazy shite from day one.
I know it ain't a popular sentiment but crazy people need help. It's a shame we put forth all this effort over bump stocks when people are suffering terribly. If these people act out the usually kill themselves. More rare they will kill their family. Even drug dealers killing one another has an element of mental illness involved....not having any empathy for another person and gunning them down over cash is insane. But every once in a while one of these crazy bastards shoot up a crowd of people and it's a damn shame on many levels.
Becoming addicted to painkillers is a type of mental illness....morbidly obese people have serious emotional problems ....we have a very serious mental health issue in this country and we don't even acknowledge it.
We, as a nation, were founded by crazy people...the folks who stayed in Europe and Asia and now Mexico and Central America think and thought that anyone who would roll the dice and immigrate is crazy.....it is much more common to be risk adverse and stay put than move.....it's easy to imagine telling your neighbor that you are going to America and your risk adverse neighbor telling you you are crazy! Americans have been doing crazy shite from day one.
I know it ain't a popular sentiment but crazy people need help. It's a shame we put forth all this effort over bump stocks when people are suffering terribly. If these people act out the usually kill themselves. More rare they will kill their family. Even drug dealers killing one another has an element of mental illness involved....not having any empathy for another person and gunning them down over cash is insane. But every once in a while one of these crazy bastards shoot up a crowd of people and it's a damn shame on many levels.
Becoming addicted to painkillers is a type of mental illness....morbidly obese people have serious emotional problems ....we have a very serious mental health issue in this country and we don't even acknowledge it.
12
Posted on 10/6/17 at 6:52 pm to germandawg
have not seen evidence that this guy would have been identified as "mentally ill"
Posted on 10/6/17 at 6:54 pm to germandawg
ANYONE that does this is crazy.
Now, what was his motive?
Now, what was his motive?
Posted on 10/6/17 at 6:56 pm to m2pro
quote:
ANYONE that does this is crazy.
The key if how to make that determination before he did it.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 6:57 pm to germandawg
here is what i ask every person who wants gun control from the mentally ill (which i support whole heartedly in concept. but in practice will never work)
ok. so, we ban the mentally ill from owning firearms. what does this do?
1) people who already own firearms will not seek treatment for their issues or will lie about them in any mandated test.
2) certain psychologist will be pro gun, others will be anti gun, and they will undoubtedly recommend confiscation or will under report their filings to agree with their ideals. i.e. some will say youre mentally ill simply to ensure you dont own firearms.
3) we go by referrals. which will turn into an ideological witch hunt in which those wholeheartedly for gun control measures will do anything and everything to try to frame someone as mentally ill in order to get their guns from them. (oh look! tommy posted i wanna die on twitter! hes suicidal!)
so, after all that, we have to realize that everyone goes through mental issues throughout their lives. every one of us has been depressed. these things last for different amounts of time for different people, so how long should someone whos depressed not be allowed to own firearms? a year? 2? 5? 10? forever?
all in all, this type of legislation would be horrible in practice. you would see people with mental health issues cease from seeking treatment, and people outright lying to those who are "questioning" them to see if they are mentally ill.
you cant fix mental issues by punishing those whom come forward seeking help for their issues. and thats exactly what this type of legislation would be.
ok. so, we ban the mentally ill from owning firearms. what does this do?
1) people who already own firearms will not seek treatment for their issues or will lie about them in any mandated test.
2) certain psychologist will be pro gun, others will be anti gun, and they will undoubtedly recommend confiscation or will under report their filings to agree with their ideals. i.e. some will say youre mentally ill simply to ensure you dont own firearms.
3) we go by referrals. which will turn into an ideological witch hunt in which those wholeheartedly for gun control measures will do anything and everything to try to frame someone as mentally ill in order to get their guns from them. (oh look! tommy posted i wanna die on twitter! hes suicidal!)
so, after all that, we have to realize that everyone goes through mental issues throughout their lives. every one of us has been depressed. these things last for different amounts of time for different people, so how long should someone whos depressed not be allowed to own firearms? a year? 2? 5? 10? forever?
all in all, this type of legislation would be horrible in practice. you would see people with mental health issues cease from seeking treatment, and people outright lying to those who are "questioning" them to see if they are mentally ill.
you cant fix mental issues by punishing those whom come forward seeking help for their issues. and thats exactly what this type of legislation would be.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 7:00 pm to gthog61
quote:
have not seen evidence that this guy would have been identified as "mentally ill"
Probably not in our current mental health system....and there is nothing that can be done to catch them all.....but surely we can do more. Suicide is pretty high in the US...when you toss in deaths from drug overdoses and people drinking and eating themselves to death the suffering associated with mental health issues is pretty damned sobering.....these people aren't bad people....they just have problems coping...and it is costing us all. I don't what if anything can be done but we sure ought to try. Eliminating bump stocks ain't going to help the mental health issue
Posted on 10/6/17 at 7:07 pm to beerJeep
quote:
ok. so, we ban the mentally ill from owning firearms. what does this do?
That wasn't my point but you make some valid points.....I'm not talking about any kind of gun legislation....I'm talking about trying to better understand some very profound human suffering and hopefully in understanding it coming up with ways to alleviate it if possible.
I like people...all people...I can find something redeemable in almost anyone.....I know that makes me a cuck but I would like to help people live better lives if there is a way to do that. A 600 pound person most likely has. Some crippling emotional issues.... Just like someone who would turn a gun on a concert crowd....they simply manifest themselves in different ways....
Posted on 10/6/17 at 7:12 pm to germandawg
quote:
Just like someone who would turn a gun on a concert crowd....they simply manifest themselves in different ways....
What if you find that the great majority of these people have a political motive? Do you still think they are mentally ill?
Posted on 10/6/17 at 7:17 pm to auggie
quote:
What if you find that the great majority of these people have a political motive? Do you still think they are mentally ill?
Absolutely! That doesn't mean we are going to live with the crazy bastards....they have to die if they act on that craziness.
Terrorists and those who kill people for ideological reasons are crazier than a shite house rat. If you talk to soldiers who have taken lives it isn't something they relish....they did it for political purposes but it is still disturbing....if it isn't they have a probl. It isn't normal to kill someone for any reason....people who kill someone in self defense often times fall into despair over it.....
Posted on 10/6/17 at 7:19 pm to germandawg
quote:
And while I firmly believe there are gun control measures that would make it more difficult for crazy people and criminals to get a gun addressing gun control in a vacuum without simultaneously talking about mental illness is doing us all a grave disservice.
We, as a nation, were founded by crazy people...the folks who stayed in Europe and Asia and now Mexico and Central America think and thought that anyone who would roll the dice and immigrate is crazy.....it is much more common to be risk adverse and stay put than move.....it's easy to imagine telling your neighbor that you are going to America and your risk adverse neighbor telling you you are crazy! Americans have been doing crazy shite from day one.
I know it ain't a popular sentiment but crazy people need help. It's a shame we put forth all this effort over bump stocks when people are suffering terribly. If these people act out the usually kill themselves. More rare they will kill their family. Even drug dealers killing one another has an element of mental illness involved....not having any empathy for another person and gunning them down over cash is insane. But every once in a while one of these crazy bastards shoot up a crowd of people and it's a damn shame on many levels.
Becoming addicted to painkillers is a type of mental illness....morbidly obese people have serious emotional problems ....we have a very serious mental health issue in this country and we don't even acknowledge it.
Your rant proves that you are crazy!
Posted on 10/6/17 at 7:24 pm to germandawg
quote:
Terrorists and those who kill people for ideological reasons are crazier than a shite house rat. If you talk to soldiers who have taken lives it isn't something they relish....they did it for political purposes but it is still disturbing....if it isn't they have a probl. It isn't normal to kill someone for any reason....people who kill someone in self defense often times fall into despair over it...
It depends on the doctrine that a person believes. If he goes against his beliefs and commits murders,even though his beliefs tell him that he is wrong to do it,yes,then he is probably criminally insane.
But if a person believes he is in the right to kill people with different ideas,because his religion tells him he will be blessed for it. I don't think that person is insane.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 7:29 pm to auggie
quote:
It depends on the doctrine that a person believes. If he goes against his beliefs and commits murders,even though his beliefs tell him that he is wrong to do it,yes,then he is probably criminally insane.
But if a person believes he is in the right to kill people with different ideas,because his religion tells him he will be blessed for it. I don't think that person is insane.
If a person thinks their religion tells them to kill people because they are different they are crazier than a shite house rat....the entire Muslim world suffers from mental illness in my opinion because apparently that is what they believe.
I'm not suggesting we live with crazy dogs....Old Yeller had to go...nobody liked it but he had to go.....but spending a lot of energy trying to,prevent violent crime while ignoring mental health issues is just , well, insane.....
Posted on 10/6/17 at 7:45 pm to germandawg
quote:
If a person thinks their religion tells them to kill people because they are different they are crazier than a shite house rat....the entire Muslim world suffers from mental illness in my opinion because apparently that is what they believe. I'm not suggesting we live with crazy dogs....Old Yeller had to go...nobody liked it but he had to go.....but spending a lot of energy trying to,prevent violent crime while ignoring mental health issues is just , well, insane.....
But our Freedom of Religion,prevents us from labeling certain groups as insane,even I agree,they are.
We have to understand,freedom is not going to make everybody lovely happy.It's always going to be a struggle and an ever evolving free for all.
I personally would not trade freedom for security,and I don't understand anyone who would.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 7:55 pm to auggie
quote:
But our Freedom of Religion,prevents us from labeling certain groups as insane,even I agree,they are. We have to understand,freedom is not going to make everybody lovely happy.It's always going to be a struggle and an ever evolving free for all. I personally would not trade freedom for security,and I don't understand anyone who would.
Living in a more or less free society is inherently risky.....you are 100% correct....but we swap freedom for security everyday. We have locks and even doors themselves to protect ourselves but they come at some cost of freedom....you have to open the door and have to lock and unlock the lock.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 8:15 pm to germandawg
quote:
Living in a more or less free society is inherently risky.....you are 100% correct....but we swap freedom for security everyday. We have locks and even doors themselves to protect ourselves but they come at some cost of freedom....you have to open the door and have to lock and unlock the lock.
I remember a time when we didn't worry about it,but locking doors now is automatic.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 8:57 pm to germandawg
quote:
Mental health is the issue
So with better mental health identification being key to preventing this. Are you saying that everybody needs to have mental health evaluations and treatment? If so, how is this going to be accomplished and paid for? Are you going to advocate for Universal Health Coverage that covers Mental Health?
Posted on 10/6/17 at 9:03 pm to gthog61
quote:
The key if how to make that determination before he did it.
You can't in many cases. Accept that insanity and guns will not go away. This toxic combination really can't be fixed. Its part of who we are, like the cartels are part of Mexican culture.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 9:07 pm to germandawg
quote:
but we swap freedom for security everyday.
I'll keep my freedom as long as I can. You can take the bitch route if you choose.
From your posts, freedom is very low on your priorities.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 9:20 pm to germandawg
The government be crazy
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:07 pm to germandawg
quote:
not having any empathy for another person and gunning them down over cash is insane.
Wrong. It's obvious you don't know what "crazy" and "insane" mean.
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