- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Liberals are morons
Posted on 12/18/14 at 2:04 pm to Ace Midnight
Posted on 12/18/14 at 2:04 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
(ETA: And I didn't miss the irony of you placing your opinion over a wiki article that is very likely to at least have been referenced.)
lol.
yeah yeah...I guess there are few things in the world I am cocksure about.
The Pacific War is on the top of the list.
I am sure I came off as hella arrogant about it. But hell I am in regards to that conflict.
3
Posted on 12/18/14 at 2:05 pm to asurob1
quote:
People today freak out about combat footage showing corsairs strafing the hell out of fishing boats off the coast of Japan.
I had a benefactor when I lived in Japan. He owned the best restaurant in the village. He took me to dinner and strip shows and let me borrow his jet skis and was an all-around real Japanese gentleman who liked hanging out with gaijin. It was his impossible dream to nail a blonde girl with big hooters.
Anyhow,one day we went to a tiny island off the coast where I lived accessible only by Ferry. He explained to me how his sister died there in WW2 because a Japanese sub was based there and we blew up the school too. It was sobering. He was staunchly pro-American, and like most Japanese just profoundly sad that that war ever occurred.
Good to see you taking a Hack-break.
How long should we expect this strange anomaly to last?
Posted on 12/18/14 at 2:06 pm to asurob1
The only way to win a war is by destroying everything, not just military targets. People have to suffer, supplies must be cut off, infrastructure destroyed, etc. you have to make it so the citizens of the country you are fighting are miserable and want it to end. Then the motivation to join and fight is gone and it'll implode and force the hand of the government
Posted on 12/18/14 at 2:12 pm to deltaland
quote:
The only way to win a war is by destroying everything, not just military targets.
Once upon a time this was not the case but unfortunately it holds true for modern warfare.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 2:15 pm to asurob1
I have a question. To preface, this is an honest question and I'm not asking sarcastically or condescendingly.
On the topic of dropping the A Bomb, I've heard some people bring up the scenario of dropping a "test" right off Japan's coast, and basically telling the Japanese "hey, at 3:00pm, look east and check this shite out." As an alternative to dropping on the city. Basically, giving the Japanese a chance to see what they were up against.
My first thought was that plane was the only way to deliver the bomb so the Japanese would just put a ton of planes in the sky to intercept any American aircraft.
Was there any discussion about doing this? I'm sure there are plenty of good reasons why it didn't happen, but I just want to know in case it ever comes up again.
Knowledgeable people on this board.
On the topic of dropping the A Bomb, I've heard some people bring up the scenario of dropping a "test" right off Japan's coast, and basically telling the Japanese "hey, at 3:00pm, look east and check this shite out." As an alternative to dropping on the city. Basically, giving the Japanese a chance to see what they were up against.
My first thought was that plane was the only way to deliver the bomb so the Japanese would just put a ton of planes in the sky to intercept any American aircraft.
Was there any discussion about doing this? I'm sure there are plenty of good reasons why it didn't happen, but I just want to know in case it ever comes up again.
Knowledgeable people on this board.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 2:17 pm to asurob1
Rex had a thread on this very topic. One of the longer running arguments I've been in around here. He took the position that Truman had no cause to do it and there where other paths to ending the war.
I believe he called Truman a killer/war criminal.
I did not take that position
I believe he called Truman a killer/war criminal.
I did not take that position
Posted on 12/18/14 at 2:21 pm to asurob1
Hey asurob, on a serious note (fwiw, you passed the test. Pearl Bayou was the correct answer)have you ever read Eagle Against the Sun by Ronald Spector? I found a hardback copy of it in a used bookstore recently and it looks good. It's on my list of books to read in 2015.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 2:28 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
Good to see you taking a Hack-break.
How long should we expect this strange anomaly to last?
lol...
well i keep telling you guys I'm not a pinko liberal.
I just happen to be left of this board :P
Posted on 12/18/14 at 2:28 pm to UGATiger26
quote:
On the topic of dropping the A Bomb, I've heard some people bring up the scenario of dropping a "test" right off Japan's coast, and basically telling the Japanese "hey, at 3:00pm, look east and check this shite out." As an alternative to dropping on the city.
A group of Manhattan Project scientists petitioned for this very course of action - either announce a demo or invite a Japanese delegation to the desert to observe the Trinity test.
Government officials and military leaders balked at this unprecedented step:
1. Would give the enemy advance knowledge and, perhaps, time to prepare and mitigate the damage
2. If it was a dud, we would look weak in the enemy's eyes
Neither of those consequences looked appealing in the middle of a shooting war.
quote:
My first thought was that plane was the only way to deliver the bomb so the Japanese would just put a ton of planes in the sky to intercept any American aircraft.
They had lost the capacity to counter U.S. airpower by July, August 1945 - we had destroyed too many aircraft and killed too many of their trained pilots.
That's what drove the Kamikaze program - a brief course of instruction, just a few weeks, was all that was required to teach guys off the street to take off, steer and crash. It takes several months, to even years to develop a fully capable combat fighter pilot.
The best argument against, "The U.S. were barbaric to drop the bombs" is simply to point out the targets. If we'd bombed Kyoto and Tokyo with the first two, civilian losses would have tripped into the 7 figures.
The targets we selected drove an end to the war and saved JAPANESE civilian lives, based on analyses of the Okinawa operation, total Japanese losses could have been up to 2 million, with well over half being civilians. Conservative estimates of Japanese civilian losses in a full-scale ground invasion, assuming Russia stayed out, were in the 250k to 300k, which is more than actual deaths at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 12/18/14 at 2:44 pm to UGATiger26
quote:
On the topic of dropping the A Bomb, I've heard some people bring up the scenario of dropping a "test" right off Japan's coast, and basically telling the Japanese "hey, at 3:00pm, look east and check this shite out." As an alternative to dropping on the city. Basically, giving the Japanese a chance to see what they were up against.
By this point in the war we were firebombing their cities. Leveling them. We were running out of good targets to destroy.
The Japanese well knew what they were up against and were putting out peace feelers. But they were desperate to save face and not agree to the terms of "unconditional surrender".
quote:
My first thought was that plane was the only way to deliver the bomb so the Japanese would just put a ton of planes in the sky to intercept any American aircraft.
While there continued to be some losses in our B-29 bombers...we no longer viewed the Japanese air arm as much of a threat to them...so much so that our bombers were bombing from low altitudes (I recall 10K was the lowest) to maximize accuracy and the the damage we were doing. The Japanese air arm had run out of credible combat pilots by this point in the war.
quote:q
Was there any discussion about doing this? I'm sure there are plenty of good reasons why it didn't happen, but I just want to know in case it ever comes up again.
I just read a what-if book If the Allies Had Fallen: Sixty Alternate Scenarios of World War II which discussed this scenario in one of it's chapters. I can't for the life of me find it at the moment..(probably under shite somewhere) but I faintly recalling it saying that this would have not worked...the Japanese military was prepared to die to the last man and woman....and child...etc etc.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 2:53 pm to asurob1
quote:
Liberals are morons
quote:
asurob1
Posted on 12/18/14 at 2:58 pm to L.A.
It's familiar but I did read it it was likely many moons ago. I have read so many of books about the entire Pacific War I tend to lean away from them anymore.
I also tend to lean away from picking up any historical books that were published before 2010.
With the influx of formally top secret materials becoming unclassified. Our knowledge of what actually happened during world war 2 has changed significantly. SO I try to stay current with WW2 authors.
Has there been an update with it?
The last two WW2 books that covered the entire conflict I have read (one volume) were Inferno by Max Hastings which was the entire war from 39 to 45 and his book Retribution which went into depth regarding the final year or so of the Pacific War. Both excellent reads.
Anymore though, I go for specific topics, like the 8th Air Force (Masters of the Air by Donald L. Miller) or various aspects of the war like the air war in the south pacific (Fire in the Sky by Eric Bergerud) which is admittedly older (2000) but is easily the finest Pacific Air War history book I have ever read. I have read it twice and and will likely pick it up a 3rd time when I finish my current read Brothers at Arms: The Unending Conflict in Korea which discusses Korea both before the Korean war and up to modern times
I also tend to lean away from picking up any historical books that were published before 2010.
With the influx of formally top secret materials becoming unclassified. Our knowledge of what actually happened during world war 2 has changed significantly. SO I try to stay current with WW2 authors.
Has there been an update with it?
The last two WW2 books that covered the entire conflict I have read (one volume) were Inferno by Max Hastings which was the entire war from 39 to 45 and his book Retribution which went into depth regarding the final year or so of the Pacific War. Both excellent reads.
Anymore though, I go for specific topics, like the 8th Air Force (Masters of the Air by Donald L. Miller) or various aspects of the war like the air war in the south pacific (Fire in the Sky by Eric Bergerud) which is admittedly older (2000) but is easily the finest Pacific Air War history book I have ever read. I have read it twice and and will likely pick it up a 3rd time when I finish my current read Brothers at Arms: The Unending Conflict in Korea which discusses Korea both before the Korean war and up to modern times
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:00 pm to asurob1
I don't think there's an update. It was written around 1985 or so, if I remember correctly.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:00 pm to Iosh
quote:
I think Wikipedia can't be beat as a secondary reference. People who shite on it don't realize how much worse the rest of the Internet is.
Considering the alternative, I'm always glad that wiki is there.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:01 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
The targets we selected drove an end to the war and saved JAPANESE civilian lives, based on analyses of the Okinawa operation, total Japanese losses could have been up to 2 million, with well over half being civilians. Conservative estimates of Japanese civilian losses in a full-scale ground invasion, assuming Russia stayed out, were in the 250k to 300k, which is more than actual deaths at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Ace is 101 percent correct. And as I recall with my most recent read this is precisely the conclusion the historians reached.
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:03 pm to L.A.
quote:
I don't think there's an update. It was written around 1985 or so, if I remember correctly.
too bad. While I never recommend against reading a history book. I'd look for something written a bit more recently. In 30 years more then a few of the details of WW2 have changed and while the grand topics remain the same (we kicked arse) how we got there is a bit different.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:06 pm to asurob1
This is off-topic...but I wonder how many of you guys are wargamers?
I bet Ace is...anyone else?
If so, what do you play?
I bet Ace is...anyone else?
If so, what do you play?
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:07 pm to deltaland
quote:
Most people have no clue what WW2 really was.
It was something so awful that anybody who lived through it went above and beyond to make sure it never happened again in their lifetime. I don't think most people understand how destructive it was and just how plain evil people were in that time. It's almost in unbelievable. The A bomb was the best thing that could have happened... That entire debacle needed to be ended and the A bomb was the only way to do it without dragging the war on
i have a pretty good knowledge of WW2 and history but by no means an expert on any of it, but i thoroughly agree that dropping those bombs was the smartest decision any President has ever made. It saved thousands of American and Japanese lives and the sheer destruction od Nuclear weapons is why the U.S. and the Soviets never tied up for round three.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:09 pm to asurob1
quote:Not all pages can be edited by just anyone. Also there is a historical record of edits that can be reviewed and updated. Also, each bit of information is cited; if there isn't a citation then that is clearly visible as well.
My question is...does anyone actually consider wikipedia a serious source? I know I sure as hell don't considering that anyone can edit there.
YES, it is a serious source. One of the best things on the internet.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:20 pm to asurob1
quote:
I am a subject matter expert on World War 2, specially the Pacific War. I have forgotten more about the topic then most people know.
I am the fricking source
quote:
I am the fricking source.
Page 3 of 6
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News