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Started By
Message
re: Jindal trying to paint BESE as corrupt as a way out of his two faced stand on CC
Posted on 7/18/14 at 9:49 pm to lsutiger1fan
Posted on 7/18/14 at 9:49 pm to lsutiger1fan
quote:
Some of you discussing Common Core need to take the time and read Mercedes Schnieder's, Diane Ravitch's, Crazy Crawfish's or Louisiana Educator's blog. It is all about money. Pearson is making a ton of money off all of this. You cannot count on The Advocate to give correct information. I am an educator of 30 years. I have been a teacher,librarian, principal and now a supervisor. Not everything is terrible about Common Core, but the K-2 standards are not developmentally appropriate. Major early childhood experts have come out against them. Educators need to be involved in creating more rigorous standards , not a Governor's association.
Also I know some of you make fun of people who never post. Go ahead. But was reading these comments and people need to do more research. Probably last post for a while
I would be interested in links to where someone is making a bunch of money off of this. I don't doubt it. Anything that gives the education bureaucracy an opportunity to chases money will have a lot of support.
I really don't see why we would need to spend anything to implement CC standards in our school. Show the teachers what you intend to test on and then give them the freedom and the responsibility to teach it. I took the third grade math test and I will say I really did like the logic they expected kids to be taught.
I encourage everyone to got take that test.
I agree the Governor should not be involved in making the test and this is what White is saying. I do not want us dumbing down a performance test. I would much rather have strenuous test and large rewards for improving the results of those test year to year.
3
Posted on 7/18/14 at 10:04 pm to I B Freeman
Go to Mercedes Schneider's blog. She has done alot of research on following the money and sites evidence to back it up. Also White wants to implement what the Governor's association developed. Teacher do need professional development. Especially for the math.
This post was edited on 7/18/14 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 7/18/14 at 10:29 pm to lsutiger1fan
quote:
Teacher do need professional development. Especially for the math
If a teacher can't teach what is needed to pass that third grade test I took they should not be teaching.
It passing standards causes us to see teachers who can't teach third grade math then it will be a very good thing.
This post was edited on 7/18/14 at 10:31 pm
Posted on 7/18/14 at 10:39 pm to I B Freeman
It's not what is on the test, it is how cc wants you to teach it. Let teachers teach.
This post was edited on 7/18/14 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 7/18/14 at 10:49 pm to lsutiger1fan
quote:
It's not what is on the test, it is how cc wants you to teach it. Let teachers teach
I don't see anywhere any mandate on how to teach.
I agree teachers should teach and I support converting our school funding to all voucher so the money will begin in the classroom with teachers and not filter through layers of bureaucracy.
We should expect teachers to teach children and pay them to do so and hold them responsible when they do not.
I took the third grade math test at the PRCC site and I don't see any reason teacher cannot teach to it. I don't see any reason any additional money need be spent.
I guarantee you this--if tomorrow the state said it is optional for teachers to teach to CC standards but if they do we will pay them $5000 a year more all this criticism of CC would end and all them would be teaching it .
I went to Ms Schneider's blog and it is very confusing. She obviously hates CC and White and Roemer.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 10:53 pm to I B Freeman
You might try reading a whole article. I don't agree with you about vouchers. Also most school systems are telling teachers how to teach. Using eureka math and the department of ed units for ela. Thanks for your input.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 11:07 pm to lsutiger1fan
quote:
You might try reading a whole article.
I read more than one. Let's put it this way--you will have a very hard time telling me we should ignore the Gates and the Walton foundation let alone convincing me they are one of the "Who's who in the implosion of American Public Education".
Given the choice of taking the advice or Gates or a Walton vs taking the advice of career bureaucrats in education I think I will go with Gates and Walton.
(How much better is education in St. Tammany after they spent millions and millions on that central office?)
We spend over $450K per classroom in the typical 30 pupil classroom in Louisiana. Give that to me and I will give a school with real results. Why teachers are afraid to go with vouchers I don't understand. Parents deserve school choice and teachers do too.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 11:15 pm to lsutiger1fan
quote:
Go to Mercedes Schneider's blog. She has done alot of research on following the money and sites evidence to back it up. Also White wants to implement what the Governor's association developed. Teacher do need professional development. Especially for the math.
I need some help navigating this blog. I read some of the post and saw a lot of opinion on other peoples opinions. I see a lot of links to other articles opposing the common core and its background. However, nothing on why she opposes the common core.
This stuff is already available in other threads on the common core. She didn't do any research, she just rehashed other articles, some of which were already proven to be untrue.
Posted on 7/20/14 at 7:50 am to I B Freeman
This is getting real ugly.
Jindal fails leadership test on Common Core--Grace
Common Core debate among most rancorous
Quin Hillyer, Common Core opponent, speaks to the overreach of Jindal:
PAR says
CABL
Regardless of one's opinion on Common Core it is hard to see how the Governor's actions can be construed as evidence of leadership.
Jindal fails leadership test on Common Core--Grace
Common Core debate among most rancorous
quote:
The governor, who formerly backed Common Core, ignited the latest round of arguments when he announced in mid-June that he had issued executive orders to get the state out of the standards and shelve the tests that are supposed to measure what students know and how they compare to students in other states.
That triggered a special BESE meeting on July 1, a vote to hire special legal counsel to challenge Jindal’s bid to squash test plans and a series of press conferences and counter-press conferences by Jindal, White, Roemer, Commissioner of Administration Kristy Nichols and others.
“This is the first time there has been anything like this,” said Leslie Jacobs, a former BESE member who played a major role in creating Louisiana’s public school accountability system.
Jacobs noted that, until now, former Govs. Mike Foster and Kathleen Blanco and Jindal were aligned with BESE in the state’s latest push to improve public schools.
Those changes included LEAP, the takeover of public schools in New Orleans, the expansion of vouchers statewide and the push to make it harder for teachers to earn and retain a form of job protection called tenure.
“BESE stayed aligned,” Jacobs said. “The governor has always gotten the superintendent he wanted, and they worked cooperatively together and BESE worked with the governor.”
All that has changed.
Quin Hillyer, Common Core opponent, speaks to the overreach of Jindal:
quote:
The citizens of Louisiana enacted a state constitution in 1974 that gave primary responsibility for educational policy to the Board of Elementary and Secondary Education, with oversight by the Legislature and ultimate authority resting in the usual legislative process. Jindal’s evasion of those constitutional strictures is an abuse of the spirit of the state charter, and it threatens long-term harm to the balance of governmental power.
Legally, the governor is asserting his pre-eminence in the awarding of state contracts. (He says he is voiding BESE’s contract with the provider of Core-aligned tests.) Practically, he is trying to set education policy unilaterally, against the wishes of BESE, against his own hand-chosen state superintendent of education and against the evident wishes of a majority of a clueless Legislature of Louisiana Association of Business and Industry puppets. In doing so, he is showing similarly unfortunate, imperial tendencies as his archenemy Barack Obama, whose own executive overreach is being curtailed (thank goodness) at an unprecedented rate by unanimous Supreme Court judgments.
Jindal isn’t necessarily violating the letter of the state constitution, as Obama has on several occasions on the federal Constitution, but his unilateral abridgement of Common Core runs roughshod over Madisonian principles of executive restraint.
quote:
Jindal didn’t even make a legitimate attempt to defeat Common Core through the legislative process. In the past session, he merely filed so-called “green cards” in support of a few bills against Common Core, but at that time he offered slim explanation for his position and otherwise spent not a bit of political capital to persuade legislators. To have failed to make an effort legislatively, and then to follow with unilateral executive action, is to show an unattractive imperiousness.
PAR says
quote:
The governor should not use his bureaucracies for harassment and ultimately allow bureaucrats to make policy decisions that are clearly and rightly delegated to state education leaders and the Legislature under Louisiana's constitution and statutes. The governor regularly criticizes the federal government for this type of executive over-reach.
The governor's new opinion on Common Core is his business and his right, even though his opinion is not consistent with the laws he endorsed and signed into effect. It is unfortunate that the governor is traveling the nation criticizing his state on this issue. But his potential use of executive over-reach and bureaucratic interference to stop Common Core is a more serious matter and would be damaging and punitive to schools and taxpayers.
CABL
quote:
The governor spent his time talking about the history of corruption in Louisiana," said chief of staff Kyle Plotkin. Not about children. Not about teachers. And not BESE's two proposals to the governor to resolve what has become a most disturbing stalemate over student testing. Just more vague references to corruption and education officials "potentially" evading procurement laws.
There it was for all to see. More smoke and mirrors. It's interesting that the administration appears to be accusing the Department of Education of using the procurement process for improper purposes, though they seem to be doing exactly the same thing themselves. The procurement process was meant to shelter state purchasing from political influence, but they appear to be using it to insert their own political influence. Would that be corrupt?
This charade should stop. It's very clear, just as BESE President Chas Roemer has said, that with the governor's flip-flop on Common Core standards he is trying to use the vehicle of state procurement laws to attack the standards and effectively rewrite state education policies which are statutorily the responsibility of BESE.
Their methods of doing so are becoming exceedingly transparent. Every time BESE makes a move to assert its legal authority, the governor's Division of Administration fires back with some new and vague allegation implying wrongdoing, but never stating just what it is. Their latest move is most troubling.
Regardless of one's opinion on Common Core it is hard to see how the Governor's actions can be construed as evidence of leadership.
This post was edited on 7/20/14 at 8:05 am
Posted on 7/20/14 at 8:18 am to I B Freeman
I'm just going to leave this here.
LINK
LINK
Edited to clarify who the quotes were made by.
LINK
quote:
Regarding the July 17, 2014, meeting between, Jindal and White, Jindal’s Chief of Staff Kyle Plotkin noted that Jindal told White of the history of Louisiana corruption in politics and that the law would be followed regarding assessment contracts.
In other words, White (with apparent BESE majority support) really did a number with rigging assessment contracts, and all involved know as much whether all involved want to publicly admit it.
quote:
Whether or not Jindal’s DOA will approve to have Jindal sued remains to be seen. However, what is clear is that if BESE sues Jindal, White better be prepared to fork over any subpoenaed documents that he is currently withholding.
White being forced by court order to surrender documents….
That might just make a lawsuit both worthwhile and fun to watch.
LINK
quote:
"The Department of Education needs to follow all of the law, not just part of the law. The Department needs to follow the law all of the time, not just some of the time," she said.
"I don't think what they are describing is following the law," Roemer said. "They give a lot of speeches about following the law. They should follow the constitution… They need to know that we're not going to use the procurement process to make policy."
quote:
BESE member Lottie Beebe said she agrees with Jindal that the Department of Education needs to follow bid laws and that an outside player should review the contract. She questions whether White stretched the law in past years.
quote:
"What the public should be concerned about is John White," Beebe said. "There is a lack of trust."
quote:
Board member Jane Smith said there wouldn't be a problem if BESE had gone along with her proposal to continue using the tests administered last year while a new test was developed for the following year.
quote:
White argued then that her idea wouldn't work because his department had released the test questions to the public. "I still have concerns about the legitimacy of that," she said.
quote:
Beebe said she believes "for every problem, there is a solution." She said a group of Louisiana teachers could craft a new test.
With the turmoil over testing, many parents might start using the opt-out option on testing, she said, which would be bad for students, schools and school systems because of the accountability program.
Edited to clarify who the quotes were made by.
This post was edited on 7/20/14 at 9:59 am
Posted on 7/20/14 at 8:42 am to I B Freeman
quote:
I B Freeman
STFU. Our state is kicking arse in just about every single economic category right now and all you idiots can do is bash someone for hating CC?
I understand you are just getting on J not necessarily fighting for CC, but...
Common core sucks. Our country has done just fine using the current math system. Computers do the rest now, so basically, improving to some random math teachings is not the top priority. Why don't you fight for common SENSE classes like insurance, credit worthiness, personal budgeting, etc
Our education system is horrible and compares poorly nationally with other states. But changing the math curriculum to a more difficult one is NOT EVEN ALMOST the answer!
THIS GOVERNOR IS KICKING arse and will likely go down as one of the all time greats.
Louisiana is in GREAT shape right now and is just getting started with HUGE businesses coming in to a place where unemployment is very low. He has reduced the size of the government, created surpluses in our hospital system by privatizing the management, etc etc etc.
Sorry to rain on your parade, but you should get behind whatever he's doing and realize he is doing everything he can to better the state for the long run.
Not to mention he is turning the healthcare int he right direction with a 45 million surplus which is from the hospitals that treat the bulk of medicaid patients, WITHOUT THE STUPID EXPANSION MONEY FROM THE FEDS which would have put a HUGE tax bill on us in 3 years and went on forever!!!
quote:
Does anyone see any regard for the best interest of Louisiana citizens in Jindal's actions??
So basically YES, I do. Why don't you is the real question. All of his moves, however unpopular at the time, are now showing to be pretty damn good. Are there mistakes and politics going on at times? Yes.
Posted on 7/20/14 at 8:58 am to GeeOH
quote:
THIS GOVERNOR IS KICKING arse and will likely go down as one of the all time greats.
Agree. He is enacting some huge policy changes soon to help prevent the state from losing some of the millions of dollars that are lost every year by state agencies and their lazy employees.
This guy focuses on CC while refusing to acknowledge the good things that the governor has done.
And a lot of his quotes above came from a nola.com editorial article.
Eta: But his rebuttal will be "go take the third grade test". That's his only response.
This post was edited on 7/20/14 at 9:12 am
Posted on 7/20/14 at 9:48 am to MSCoastTigerGirl
You do know Beebe is a pro-union shill, right?
Posted on 7/20/14 at 10:00 am to BigJim
And that makes her wrong?
She didn't make all of those comments, and I edited to correct that.
She didn't make all of those comments, and I edited to correct that.
Posted on 7/20/14 at 10:45 am to BigJim
quote:
You do know Beebe is a pro-union shill, right?
those teachers don't care who they stand with as long as it means less work and more money for them. They hated Jindal when he made the small move toward school choice. Quieted down about him a little once he dumb down leap so they could hit their goals and get their bonuses and raises easier.
Now that he is against a simple common core test that will require them to actually teach more he is their best friend.
This post was edited on 7/20/14 at 10:56 am
Posted on 7/20/14 at 10:51 am to GeeOH
quote:
Our country has done just fine using the current math system
quote:
Our education system is horrible and compares poorly nationally with other states. But changing the math curriculum to a more difficult one is NOT EVEN ALMOST the answer!
Who can argue with that logic?? If I were in denial like you are I would be a Jindal supporter too.
This post was edited on 7/20/14 at 10:55 am
Posted on 7/20/14 at 11:15 am to MSCoastTigerGirl
The other one is Jane Smith, who is the governor's appointee on the board.
And yes, in my book, I assume the union rep is wrong until I am shown otherwise.
But I guess you stand with the "defenders of the status quo."
And yes, in my book, I assume the union rep is wrong until I am shown otherwise.
But I guess you stand with the "defenders of the status quo."
Posted on 7/20/14 at 12:06 pm to BigJim
quote:
in my book
quote:
I assume
quote:
I guess
Great rebuttal.
And don't guess shite about me. You have no clue what you speak of.
But continue with your opinions, as they are your right. Maybe you should learn to respect the opinions of others as well.
Posted on 7/20/14 at 12:27 pm to MSCoastTigerGirl
quote:
Great rebuttal.
And what, exactly is your rebuttal to the governor abusing his office?
You quote the governor's appointee and a union rep to defend him? Meanwhile conservative bloggers (quin and sadow), business groups (LABI, several chambers, exxon, chemical association) and neutral good government groups (CABL, PAR) are calling him out on this.
Maybe you should honestly evaluate your position on this.
You can even dislike common core and still see the horrible actions of the governor in this issue.
Posted on 7/20/14 at 12:30 pm to MSCoastTigerGirl
quote:
Maybe you should learn to respect the opinions of others as well
This is not pertinent to this thread except that you brought the subject up.
Why should people respect opinions they disagree with?? This is a common theme to decision making inside government. It seems the bureaucrats think every opinion should be accommodated somehow and we end up with bad decisions and ineffective bad government. Look at Congress--what a disaster their laws are.
Government schools cost too much and deliver less than schools in other countries. That is not debatable. It is fact.
The opinion some have that we can tweak what we are doing has been proven wrong. I do not respect opinions that say we do not need drastic changes. I do not respect opinions that layers of bureaucracy we have can change our education system---this very CC issue is evidence of that.
So I know you were addressing BigJim, but MSCoastTigerGirl I feel no need to respect your opinion on this subject. I respect your right to have an opinion but there is no reason for you to think any particular person should respect your opinion.
I respect White and Roemer's opinion because I agree with their support of school choice. I have seen the benefits of school choice. Advocates of status quo do not have opinions I can respect.
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