- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
How moderate are "Moderate Muslims", really?
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:18 pm
We know we have a problem with radical jihadists around the world who are trying to create mayhem and destruction. I have seen debates over how the vast majority of Muslims are "moderate", and we have nothing to worry about the followers of Islam, as a whole because of this.
But are moderate Muslims really like mainstream Americans? Do moderate Muslims support equality for women? Do they support LBGT rights? Are they supportive of our Constitution and laws?
Or is the difference between the majority of so-called moderates and their radical brethren much more subtle? Ask yourself, would these moderates support the agenda of the radicals if they could bring about those same changes in a non-violent way? Do they support converting the US into Sharia Law, a philosophy which is currently unconstitutional?
I am asking this question because whenever I see people answer the question of whether Islam is a threat to western civilization, the answer I inevitably hear, is, "No, because the vast majority of Muslims are moderate." I'm supposed to accept that answer and shut up, but I can't, because I'm not comfortable with that answer.
But are moderate Muslims really like mainstream Americans? Do moderate Muslims support equality for women? Do they support LBGT rights? Are they supportive of our Constitution and laws?
Or is the difference between the majority of so-called moderates and their radical brethren much more subtle? Ask yourself, would these moderates support the agenda of the radicals if they could bring about those same changes in a non-violent way? Do they support converting the US into Sharia Law, a philosophy which is currently unconstitutional?
I am asking this question because whenever I see people answer the question of whether Islam is a threat to western civilization, the answer I inevitably hear, is, "No, because the vast majority of Muslims are moderate." I'm supposed to accept that answer and shut up, but I can't, because I'm not comfortable with that answer.
This post was edited on 5/1/17 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:20 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
How moderate are "Moderate Muslims", really?
They'll rape your wife & daughters.....then kill them.....but won't mutilate their vaginas.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:21 pm to Jax-Tiger
"moderate Muslims" buy the bombs instead of wearing them
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:21 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:\
How moderate are "Moderate Muslims", really
Saddam Hussein and Bashar al-Assad are about as moderate of muslim leaders as we are going to get out of those shitholes of countries. Think about that.
This post was edited on 5/1/17 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:25 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
but I can't, because I'm not comfortable with that answer.
Trust your gut it knows lies when it hears them
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:27 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
But are moderate Muslims really like mainstream Americans? Do moderate Muslims support equality for women? Do they support LBGT rights? Are they supportive of our Constitution and laws?
I know "muslims" who are just as American as anyone else.
In Pakistan, they'd be in danger of being in trouble for apostasy. Here, their biggest crime is sometimes leaving you with the bar tab.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:33 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
But are moderate Muslims really like mainstream Americans? Do moderate Muslims support equality for women? Do they support LBGT rights? Are they supportive of our Constitution and laws?
Most american muslims are like americans. Now the rest of the world? they probably aren't like americans as they are in much poorer countries.
I used to work with quite a few muslims. And the only thing you would notice is that they didn't drink or eat pork. Other than that, they were just like everyone at my work. And hell many ate pork and drank.
just like with christianity, most muslims aren't hard core true believers. they believe but other thigns are way more important.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:33 pm to Jax-Tiger
If you stay in a death cult but say "I'm really not that into death" ....
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:47 pm to RuLSU
quote:
I know "muslims" who are just as American as anyone else.
But I suspect that these types of Muslims are not the majority, or even close to being a majority. That's why they are leaving, right?
Having said that, even if they are "just as American as anyone else", that means they send their kids to school, watch LSU football, etc... What are their politics? Do they want to make homosexuality illegal? Do they support equal rights for women?
I knew a couple from Pakistan that lived in my neighborhood. They came around to the block parties, he was a Jags fan, he drank beers with us, his kids played with my kids and they would all hang out at the pool together. I remember it being a big deal in the neighborhood because their daughter was very upset because she was turning 12 and she was no longer going to be allowed to swim in the neighborhood pool because per their laws and customs, she couldn't show her arms and legs in public. They were also starting to get worried about finding an acceptable husband for their daughter. He took a job elsewhere, and they moved away, so I don't really know how that ended.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:52 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
Most american muslims are like americans. Now the rest of the world? they probably aren't like americans as they are in much poorer countries.
It's not poverty. It's population percentages. Where Muslims are a tiny minority (like America) they behave. Where they become a large percentage of the population (like France) they go ape shite crazy.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:59 pm to Zach
quote:
Where Muslims are a tiny minority (like America) they behave. Where they become a large percentage of the population (like France) they go ape shite crazy.
I work with a team of Indian H-1B visa workers. Some of them behave differently in front of me vs their countrymen. I know one guy that I have a beer with occasionally, who likes ordering the pork and beef sliders at the watering hole that we go to. He won't eat beef or pork in front of the other guys on the team, because he doesn't want them to know that he does it. He has told me not to tell anyone about it.
That supports your theory and shows that behavior changes, depending on who is watching or in charge.
This post was edited on 5/1/17 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:01 pm to Jax-Tiger
Radical Muslims want to kill you.
Moderate Muslims want radical Muslims to kill you for them.
Moderate Muslims want radical Muslims to kill you for them.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:01 pm to Jax-Tiger
Simple question with a simple answer
A radical Muslim is a Muslim that wants to kill everyone who believes differently than they do
A moderate Muslim is a Muslim that wants a radical Muslim to kill everyone who believes differently than they do.
A radical Muslim is a Muslim that wants to kill everyone who believes differently than they do
A moderate Muslim is a Muslim that wants a radical Muslim to kill everyone who believes differently than they do.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:05 pm to Jax-Tiger
The moderates won't come to kill you.
But once the Muslim community becomes the majority, they expect you to behave in line with their sensibilities and if you don't, they won't lift a finger to help you when the radicals come for you.
But once the Muslim community becomes the majority, they expect you to behave in line with their sensibilities and if you don't, they won't lift a finger to help you when the radicals come for you.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:10 pm to TrueTiger
Right.
There is a well publicized Pew study that shows widespread acceptance of Sharia and even violent terrorism amongst "moderate" Muslims. Liberals and Dems really don't like to talk about this Pew study.
There is a well publicized Pew study that shows widespread acceptance of Sharia and even violent terrorism amongst "moderate" Muslims. Liberals and Dems really don't like to talk about this Pew study.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:10 pm to Jax-Tiger
I'll try to answer your questions, but you've asked like twenty in a small space, and each requires a very complicated answer if I were to be thorough.
Well this is by and large true. Islamism is the problem, specifically Salafi/Wahabis, who come from the most extreme school of Islamic jurisprudence. This group in particular is the belief of the major terrorist groups. Beyond that there is as wide variety of belief in the Islamic world as there is in the West.
The lines are clearly delineated along sectarian lines, but sometimes there is a national aspect, or an ethnic one. A Turk, for example, isn't likely to believe in the Pan-Arabic aspects of the Islamists. The difference also depends on wealth and class. So the question is complicated.
By and large I'd argue that most Muslims (not in the West) are indifferent to the West, instead concerned with the material facts of their life, which is what I'd argue is also the mien of the vast majority of people in the West.
There is a streak of liberalism appearing in the Islamic world, but many of the people who could lead it are chased out or killed by authoritarian governments (which we generally support), which is actually a pattern that has been consistent in the post-War era.
Also for the most part, moderate Muslims cannot do anything about the Salafis, because the Islamists are small, organized, and are extremely good at propaganda. What drives moderation, in general? Mostly capitalism and wealth, but the model in the Islamic world has either been to use the oil wealth to sustain massive welfare states or to ensure wealth goes into the hands of very few, situations which either drive ennui and disillusionment, or continue to alienate the underclasses, who become ripe for Islamism due to that alienation.
This is a extremely general answer, but the questions you posed are book length in scope, and aren't easily answerable without a lot of context, both historical and contemporary.
quote:
We know we have a problem with radical jihadists around the world who are trying to create mayhem and destruction. I have seen debates over how the vast majority of Muslims are "moderate", and we have nothing to worry about the followers of Islam, as a whole because of this.
Well this is by and large true. Islamism is the problem, specifically Salafi/Wahabis, who come from the most extreme school of Islamic jurisprudence. This group in particular is the belief of the major terrorist groups. Beyond that there is as wide variety of belief in the Islamic world as there is in the West.
quote:
Or is the difference between the majority of so-called moderates and their radical brethren much more subtle?
The lines are clearly delineated along sectarian lines, but sometimes there is a national aspect, or an ethnic one. A Turk, for example, isn't likely to believe in the Pan-Arabic aspects of the Islamists. The difference also depends on wealth and class. So the question is complicated.
By and large I'd argue that most Muslims (not in the West) are indifferent to the West, instead concerned with the material facts of their life, which is what I'd argue is also the mien of the vast majority of people in the West.
There is a streak of liberalism appearing in the Islamic world, but many of the people who could lead it are chased out or killed by authoritarian governments (which we generally support), which is actually a pattern that has been consistent in the post-War era.
Also for the most part, moderate Muslims cannot do anything about the Salafis, because the Islamists are small, organized, and are extremely good at propaganda. What drives moderation, in general? Mostly capitalism and wealth, but the model in the Islamic world has either been to use the oil wealth to sustain massive welfare states or to ensure wealth goes into the hands of very few, situations which either drive ennui and disillusionment, or continue to alienate the underclasses, who become ripe for Islamism due to that alienation.
This is a extremely general answer, but the questions you posed are book length in scope, and aren't easily answerable without a lot of context, both historical and contemporary.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:13 pm to Zach
quote:
Where Muslims are a tiny minority (like America) they behave. Where they become a large percentage of the population (like France) they go ape shite crazy.
Muslim's in France are a minority as well. They aren't above 10% in the latest projections. The situation in France has to do with the complicated history, and an alienated class of 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants who feel as they aren't accepted in French culture as well as North African culture. I posted this article yesterday, but I think it does a wonderful job in describing part of the French issue. LINK
This post was edited on 5/1/17 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:19 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Muslim's in France are a minority as well. They aren't above 10% in the latest projections.
But aren't there towns or enclaves where they are the majority? Aren't these the so-called, "NO-GO" zones?
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:28 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
But aren't there towns or enclaves where they are the majority?
Mostly banliues. The pattern of Algerian immigration to France started with the Kabyle Berber and then Arab Algerians, who often were (supposedly) discriminated against in social housing. The difficulty in finding housing lead to the banliue situation, where these suburbs are essentially cut off from the town at large, and thus become enclaves. In the Algerian case, the Algerian War for Independence and the reaction to that by the French drove much of that discrimination. It wasn't exactly by choice that these people live in the banliue.
This post was edited on 5/1/17 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:29 pm to Wtodd
quote:
They'll rape your wife & daughters.....then kill them.....but won't mutilate their vaginas.
I don't know about this, but they'll surely stand by quietly while others who practice their faith do in the name of Islam.
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News