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Message
re: Hobby Lobby ruling expected tomorrow--all eyes on Roberts
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:06 am to GumboPot
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:06 am to GumboPot
quote:
Today is a huge day for individual liberty.
Along with the Hobby Lobby case the second and not so publicized but nonetheless very important case of Harris v. Quinn:
quote:
the Court is considering whether a group of home health care providers who work for the state of Illinois can be required to provide financial support to a union that represents them.
LINK
I'm not very optimistic.
I'm pretty optimistic for both. I think they'll be very narrow rulings, however.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:06 am to GumboPot
quote:
Today is a huge day for individual liberty.
Along with the Hobby Lobby case the second and not so publicized but nonetheless very important case of Harris v. Quinn:
quote:
the Court is considering whether a group of home health care providers who work for the state of Illinois can be required to provide financial support to a union that represents them.
LINK
I'm not very optimistic
You know it really is tough to see how a state can force someone into a union. There is nothing right about that.
Huffington Post reports: LINK
quote:
As Harvard law professor Benjamin Sachs has explained, there are several possible outcomes in Harris v. Quinn. The court could simply affirm the lower court's ruling, in which case labor's lost sleep would be all for naught. Or, in a blow to unions that represent home care workers like Harris, the court could rule that such workers are employed by individuals and aren't really state employees. In that case, they wouldn't be covered by Abood and could no longer be required to pay union fees.
But another outcome -- albeit one that appeared unlikely during oral arguments -- is that the justices could embrace the plaintiffs' broad First Amendment argument, in what would be a disastrous case for organized labor at large. Such a decision could give public-sector workers throughout the U.S. the ability to opt out of paying fees to the unions that bargain for them, thereby instituting a kind of right-to-work on the public sector.
There's a reason labor unions combat right-to-work laws so doggedly in states across the country: When given the choice to stop supporting the union, many workers do so.
Although the unionization rate has steadily tumbled to just 6.7 percent of the U.S. private sector, union density in the public sector has held strong for decades. Today, more than one-third of such workers are still unionized, and public-sector unions remain a major force in U.S. policy and politics.
The Supreme Court -- to the fear of union leaders, and to the glee of those on the right who loathe public-sector unionism -- has the potential to change all that on Monday.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:12 am to GeorgeWest
quote:
Can the court possibly rule that a corporaTION can use the beliefs of a majority of the owners to deny basic human rights to its employees?
Holy shite how can people like you even breathe? Photosynthesis? Americans are slowly being replaced by a breed of plant that looks and makes sounds like humans, but are actually just mobile cucumbers with the power of mimicry.
How do you think people manage to acquire those other "basic human rights?" You know, the real ones, like shelter and sustenance? In any rational world, a person is paid money and then given the freedom to determine how they want to budget for these "basic human rights."
How about we let the government or our employers provide what kind of food we eat, where we live, even government-made entertainment and that way they'll have ALL our "basic human rights" covered and we won't even need wages. Sounds like a goddamn eutopia to me man.
This post was edited on 6/30/14 at 8:18 am
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:16 am to ManBearTiger
quote:
How about we let the government or our employers provide
what kind of food we eat,
(transfats, salt limitations, nutrition labeling requirements)
where we live,
(CRA, EPA regs, wetlands COE)
even government-made entertainment
(NPR, "the arts")
and that way they'll have ALL our "basic human rights" covered and we won't even need wages. Sounds like a goddamn eutopia to me man.
(The fact that ANY of this is deemed constitutional is an affront to the Founding Fathers)
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:17 am to Rex
quote:
Am I wrong?
Every time your greasy little fingers type.
But seriously, how does the court ruling affect you? After all you are unemployed.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:20 am to I B Freeman
Public Unions = VA, IRS, NSA, DOJ, et al. Virtually no accountability; they will circle the wagons to protect their jobs. They all stick together, as they are all employed by the very entity that would be slashed for it's extreme practical inefficiency, if not moral corruption.
VA bureaucrats cooking the books and sending patients to premature and horrific deaths is blatantly immoral and feloniously criminal. Will they be jailed? "Houston...we've got a problem" (or whatever they said ).
Runaway train.
VA bureaucrats cooking the books and sending patients to premature and horrific deaths is blatantly immoral and feloniously criminal. Will they be jailed? "Houston...we've got a problem" (or whatever they said ).
Runaway train.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:21 am to udtiger
quote:
How about we let the government or our employers provide
what kind of food we eat,
(transfats, salt limitations, nutrition labeling requirements)
where we live,
(CRA, EPA regs, wetlands COE)
even government-made entertainment
(NPR, "the arts")
and that way they'll have ALL our "basic human rights" covered and we won't even need wages. Sounds like a goddamn eutopia to me man.
(The fact that ANY of this is deemed constitutional is an affront to the Founding Fathers)
Exactly, our personal wealth- anything we work for, anything which gives the consumer the freedom of individual choice- is inexorably being garnered for the express purpose of our own imprisonment.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:23 am to ManBearTiger
What time do the rulings come out? 11am if I remember correctly?
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:23 am to ManBearTiger
quote:
Holy shite how can people like you even breathe? Photosynthesis? Americans are slowly being replaced by a breed of plant that looks and makes sounds like humans, but are actually just mobile cucumbers with the power of mimicry.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:25 am to udtiger
But they roll them out one at a time and sometimes dissents are read from the bench. By 11:00 EDT all of the opinions should be out.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:25 am to udtiger
quote:
9:30 EDT
Oh shite, so were 6m away... Well possibly. Could hold it for another day.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:28 am to ManBearTiger
quote:
Holy shite how can people like you even breathe? Photosynthesis? Americans are slowly being replaced by a breed of plant that looks and makes sounds like humans, but are actually just mobile cucumbers with the power of mimicry.
Love this
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:30 am to GumboPot
The orders come out at 9:30 et; the opinions are at 10.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:30 am to Vols&Shaft83
Lets do this... How many rulings do they have left to announce?
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:32 am to Lsut81
2. Hobby Lobby and Harris v. Quinn. The first one will come out at 9 our time.
ETA: Harris will likely come out before Hobby Lobby (my guess is either Roberts or Kennedy has Hobby Lobby), so it'll be closer to 9:15 or so on that one.
ETA: Harris will likely come out before Hobby Lobby (my guess is either Roberts or Kennedy has Hobby Lobby), so it'll be closer to 9:15 or so on that one.
This post was edited on 6/30/14 at 8:33 am
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:32 am to Vols&Shaft83
I really hope hobby lobby wins this. I'm tired of the idea that businesses exist to provide the employees with jobs, benefits, and birth control. Businesses exist to make money and should be able to offer what they want to.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:33 am to Vols&Shaft83
How does this logic work?
Nobody is making women work at places that do not provide contraceptive coverage. Do businesses that do not provide health insurance discriminate against women too?
How can the government cite the commerce clause as the authority to force such things on business and then say that business under a certain number of employees are not required to do the same thing?
quote:
House Democratic Caucus Chairman Xavier Becerra, D-Calif., speaking on "Fox News Sunday," predicted the Supreme Court would rule against Hobby Lobby.
"I believe that the Supreme Court will find that no business ... should be allowed to [discriminate] against women," he said. "The owner has a right to his or her religious beliefs, but that doesn't mean you get to discriminate against women if [they] have different beliefs than what the owner has."
Nobody is making women work at places that do not provide contraceptive coverage. Do businesses that do not provide health insurance discriminate against women too?
How can the government cite the commerce clause as the authority to force such things on business and then say that business under a certain number of employees are not required to do the same thing?
This post was edited on 6/30/14 at 8:34 am
Posted on 6/30/14 at 8:34 am to FalseProphet
quote:
ETA: Harris will likely come out before Hobby Lobby (my guess is either Roberts or Kennedy has Hobby Lobby), so it'll be closer to 9:15 or so on that one.
Yeah, because isn't the order done on how senior the justice is that writes the opinion?
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