re: Gun Control in Nazi Germany

I've heard that some guns were confiscated in New Orleans after Katrina. Is this true?

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I've heard that some guns were confiscated in New Orleans after Katrina

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I have a friend who lives in the French Quarter, and was there during the whole fiasco that occurred after Bush dynamited the levees.

He and his friends were actually given guns by the Cops, and told to get the hell out.

As far as confiscating guns, I think like everything else Nagin attempted, that failed too.

The United States is 3rd in murders throughout the World! But if you take out Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC, and New Orleans, the United States is 4th from the bottom for murders. Believe it or not, these 4 cities also have the toughest gun control laws in the United States.

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But if you take out Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC, and New Orleans, the United States is 4th from the bottom for murders.

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Wow look, if you remove our murder capitals, our murder rate isn't so bad!

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Believe it or not, these 4 cities also have the toughest gun control laws in the United States.

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New Orleans. Really?

nothing worse than being lynched because you've been legislated out of your basic human right.

Even worse when it is so shortly removed from gaining status as a human.

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You serious, Clark?

LC

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Yes. And I've already quite plainly supported this argument so if you wish to rebut it it would probably be necessary for you to address those issues and specifically discredit them somehow other than "LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!"

So do you have a substantive argument, Clark?

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To say that Gun Control under the Nazis was lessened is technically accurate but realistically erroneous.

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I disagree. It's realistically true and little understood by most. I'm as pro-gun as they come but I see this as a fallacious parallel used by the pro-gun community for rhetorical purposes and I hate it when either side does that.

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For example, going from an implicit ban to strict and limited registration is but a nominal change.

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Well this is not the case with the 1938 law. It widely expanded gun freedoms in regard to rifles and ammunition sales. It was a significant scaling back of the strict laws from the 1928 legislation, of which I believe more accurately fits your description as it imposed strict and limited registration to counter the implicit ban instituted by the first Weimar government and the Treaty of Versailles.

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Further, at the heart of the argument is guns in the hands of those who oppose the government - the Jews. Obviously, and as you state also, the laws enacted by the Nazis were as strict, if not more, towards Jews.

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Without a doubt the Nazis stripped Jews of their gun rights, but this was late in 1938 after Kristallnacht. Even Jews saw no further restrictions on their ownership with the first 1938 legislation, though were removed from the manufactuing and distribution process. As I said earlier, their plight had very little to do with not having gun freedoms and everything to do with the fact that they were being legislated out of the economic sphere and citizenship even prior to losing gun freedoms. The role of gun control in the subjugation and oppression of Jews in Germany was very limited in spite of popular contemporary rhetoric claiming the opposite.

Not to mention, as I mentioned earlier as well, the Jews in Germany affected by this law were a few hundred thousand or so. The majority of Jews affected by the Holocaust were foreign Jews, most in the East, and this law had no bearing on them whatsoever, so to imply that gun restrictions in late 1938 led to the Jews plight is rather absurd.

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But the 1938 law also contained restrictions based on "trustworthiness", and who better to apply that criteria than your local nazi Gestapo?

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Fair enough that that is a highly arbitrary term but what is the evidence of how it was applied? And who made such decisions? It may have been local civil servants and not "Gestapo" personnel at all. And I'm certainly not arguing that the Germans had great and free gun laws at that time that would satisfy American standards. But simply that they in fact did greatly expand gun freedoms for those that fit their citizenship standards and the notion that gun control was immediately implemented as a primary and necessary tool to oppress the Jews is historically untrue.

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So, from a Jewish perspective, the argument that Nazis instituted laws restricting their gun rights is quite accurate.

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And I've not stated that this statement would be inaccurate. But to argue that it happened almost right away and was seen as an essential method by the Nazis in persecuting them or that this removal of gun liberties was essential to the orchestration of the subsequent Holocaust to come is simply a spurrious claim.

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Yeah. If the Jews had had guns, maybe, just maybe 6 million of them wouldn't have been slaughtered.

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And that is not the thesis of the book nor does it refute any of my criticisms of the book's thesis. So I'm still waiting on you to actually counter any of my remarks which you seemed to find so funny but added no substantive counter arguments. But apparently you somehow believe that millions of foreign Jews met their demise because a few hundred thousand in Germany were prohibited from owning guns...after a law passed in November of 1938.

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Europe has always been a gun control Mecca, it wasn't just Nazi Germany that disarmed its people. The whole continent was pretty much devoid of private ownership of guns.

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National Socialist Germany actually had far more gun liberties than most current day Europeans have. The common held notion that intense gun control was a cornerstone of Nazi power grabbing is fabricated. I know it is a fun argument to try and tie gun control to the Holocaust, because it scores so many cheap argumentative points, but it is a fallacious argument.

There are plenty of very strong and easy arguments to make in favor of gun liberty in this country and the last thing we need is people making BS correlations between gun control, Nazi Germany, and the Holocaust when they are so easily invalidated. I guess I prefer our side to not stoop to the opposition tactics of dishonest appeals to emotion and sensationalism.

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Sure, there were some who were permitted to own firearms, but they were the exception, not the rule.

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Really? Have you read the laws? What statistics do you have to demonstrate that?

For the record, I would be in favor of you owning almost any type of gun as long as you can hold on to it. I just want to make sure that you aren't the type of gun owner to "lose" them or have them "stolen" regularly.