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Message
re: Evolution: Missing link found. Fish => Tetrapod
Posted on 1/14/14 at 4:50 pm to Azranod
Posted on 1/14/14 at 4:50 pm to Azranod
quote:
What advantage is gained from a foot becoming a proto-wing? I don't think it would increase running speed.
Ask yourself why there are no animals running around with wings where their feet should be
0
Posted on 1/14/14 at 4:52 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Of course it came from some where - it had to be contained, at the molecular level - in other words the instructions to make the wing bigger, or longer or more "feathery" - HAD to come from somewhere
you already understand the mutation process and the origins of variation within populations
you can answer your own question
DNA replicates itself
the variation is a result of that replication process
Posted on 1/14/14 at 4:53 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
in that it is always moving forward to an ultimate goal and always advancing.
Entropy suggests this absolutely shouldn't be happening - without intervention, forms should go from more complex to more simple due to entropy. Obviously, biological and genetic processes are far more detailed for a simple analysis, but the basic premise still holds true - it requires maintenance and effort to change and doing nothing generally results in a reversion to a natural chaotic state.
Now - if evolution has occurred as postulated, certainly that was/is a chaotic process - and the more widespread life became, the possibilities for interaction expanded geometrically. Think how the millions of species are adapting to man's presence and relative dominance of the Earth as we speak?
But I'm still puzzled by the genesis of the genetic code. DNA is densely packed - even for fairly simple organism - one mental model to use to think about it is a massive number of switches, like an eletro-mechanical computer, controlling an assembly line - the genes are like punch cards with tell the assembly line to put various proteins, nucleic acids, etc., in what place to manufacture the new cell.
From whence did that first set of instructions spring?
This post was edited on 1/14/14 at 4:54 pm
Posted on 1/14/14 at 4:56 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
From whence did that first set of instructions spring?
It's already been said, but aliens
Posted on 1/14/14 at 4:57 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Entropy suggests this absolutely shouldn't be happening - without intervention, forms should go from more complex to more simple due to entropy.
No, it doesn't. Here is a link you may find useful.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 5:01 pm to Josh Fenderman
quote:
It's already been said, but aliens
Yes but the aliens are white!
Posted on 1/14/14 at 5:05 pm to NC_Tigah
It's a ploy to get funding. global conspiracy.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 5:11 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Entropy suggests this absolutely shouldn't be happening - without intervention, forms should go from more complex to more simple due to entropy.
This is a complete and total misunderstanding of entropy. Yes, entropy is always increasing. Yes, a system will always tend to go from "order" to "disorder". But here's the thing... entropy increases when energy is converted into work. In our system, the sun is the source of all energy. It is constantly releasing energy, which is doing the work of growing and replicating life on earth. There is plenty of energy remaining in the sun, and it will continue to do work as it is released. I don't know where you are getting this "complex to simple" stuff. The sun is very ordered and simple, but the work it does is less predictable (disordered). Order -> disorder. Complexity is the state of being complicated and less ordered. Pure energy is about as simple and ordered as it gets, and nearly any work it does is going to result in something less ordered and more complex. This is the exact process by which entropy increases.
I don't know how people confuse "complexity" with "order". They are antonyms in this context.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 5:59 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
From whence did that first set of instructions spring?
Nobody knows...and why is this question relevant to the topic of evolution?
Posted on 1/14/14 at 6:06 pm to goldennugget
While I believe in evolution, I also believe in intelligent design.
The complexity of the most basic biological entity or even the complexity of atoms absolutely could not come to be in a vacuum. It's defies logic more vehemently than the existence of a higher entity that these incredible functions figured themselves out.
I believe evolution is the result of secondary characteristics created by genetic mutations that gave recipients of the mutation an advantage which over the course of hundreds of thousands of years or millions of years eventually led to the weeding out of those in the species that did not possess the mutation.
The complexity of the most basic biological entity or even the complexity of atoms absolutely could not come to be in a vacuum. It's defies logic more vehemently than the existence of a higher entity that these incredible functions figured themselves out.
I believe evolution is the result of secondary characteristics created by genetic mutations that gave recipients of the mutation an advantage which over the course of hundreds of thousands of years or millions of years eventually led to the weeding out of those in the species that did not possess the mutation.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 6:34 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Entropy suggests this absolutely shouldn't be happening - without intervention, forms should go from more complex to more simple due to entropy.
In a closed system, entropy holds true.
However, the earth is not a closed system. The sun provides a bunch of energy.
If you are saying a life form, well again, it is not a closed system. When it eats, it gets energy. I'm not sure what you are getting at.
quote:
Now - if evolution has occurred as postulated, certainly that was/is a chaotic process - and the more widespread life became, the possibilities for interaction expanded geometrically.
It's not chaotic, it is random. If those random changes are helpful, those traits tend to get passed on.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 7:00 pm to Powerman
quote:We?
We are well aware that something as complex as a scientific theory is constantly changing and adapting as we have more information.
WTF is "we"?
Based on posts here as late as yesterday, and exemplified by the asinine quote I provided, your generic "we" didn't seem to have anything approaching that degree of awareness. Nothing of the sort.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 7:33 pm to NC_Tigah
Lol at another thread where stupid people can state their ignorance.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 7:35 pm to goldennugget
quote:
It makes no sense.
Neither does Algebra. Must be the invisible man.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 7:37 pm to Powerman
quote:
Unlikely to you perhaps And perhaps it is unlikely and why presumably most planets don't have any advanced civilizations
...and you will argue till you're blue in the face that this position doesn't require faith!
OKaaaaaaay!
See...you do have a religion all your own!
This post was edited on 1/14/14 at 7:41 pm
Posted on 1/14/14 at 7:46 pm to goldennugget
quote:
How the hell do fish "evolve" and "mutate" to where they can go from only breathing underwater to being able to breathe oxygen on land?
I'm guessing that over time, the fish developed strong limbs that it could crawl out of water to escape from predators, and over time they became more and more adapted to staying out of the water longer, and evolved lungs in order for it to match it's environment.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 7:49 pm to geauxturbo
quote:Nice
No, that would be like saying if you shoot a bow and arrow a lot, you'll adapt to shooting a bow and arrow over generations.
What happens is a mutation occurs or there is genetic trait which makes you mo betta at shooting a bow and arrow. Like really fawking strong shoulders..freakishly strong. Then you kill lots of animals and live and pass on your genes while chicken arms boy dies because he couldn't hold his bow up as long and missed animals. So, his genes die with him.
Take the fish. There is a mutation that allows some air to be processed in the gills (ie...primative lungs) so the mud fish can stay out of water longer, not hold his breath longer. Although, that could be a trait selected for as well. Well, lungfish lives through droughts and gillfish dies. Now you have a primitive lung passed on...and so on.
Need to see over tall grass to avoid the big toothed predator...tall neck horse is going to live while short neck dies. Necks get longer as more of the longer necked ones live and shorter necked ones die.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 7:49 pm to dcrews
quote:
As far as the monkeys evolving into humans, why do we not see a middle ground today?
Posted on 1/14/14 at 7:50 pm to dcrews
quote:
As far as the monkeys evolving into humans, why do we not see a middle ground today?
Monkeys did not evolve into humans. There was a common ancestor.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 7:50 pm to dcrews
quote:
However, monkeys evolving into humans
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