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Message
re: Does BP get a look by the Supreme Court?
Posted on 5/28/14 at 7:19 pm to USMCTiger03
Posted on 5/28/14 at 7:19 pm to USMCTiger03
quote:
So do you just post BP's memoranda word for word?
No, that was part of a paper I wrote.©
Posted on 5/28/14 at 7:22 pm to Five0
Damnit. My third grade explanation is going to get lost on the previous page.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 7:25 pm to FalseProphet
quote:
third grade explanation
Was awesome.
Just read over the opinion myself and it is strange that they cited the same case I did , but just said screw this we're not going to clear this up:
“The party invoking federal jurisdiction bears the burden of establishing [the elements of standing] ... with the manner and degree of evidence required at the successive stages of litigation.” Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife, 504 U.S. 555, 561 (1992). While in the certification of a class action that will proceed to trial a lesser inquiry into standing may be required, Ko hen v. Pacific Investment Management Co., 571 F.3d 672 (7th Cir.2009), in a settlement class such as this one, the standing inquiry must take into account the fact that inclusion in the class means recovery. Denney v. Deutsche Bank AG, 443 F.3d 253, 264 (2d Cir.2006) (“[N]o class may be certified that contains members lacking Article III standing. The class must therefore be defined in such a way that anyone within it would have standing”). While the Kohen approach to standing has been used in the Seventh, Ninth, and Third Circuits, other cases in the Eighth, Seventh, and Ninth have assessed cases under the Denney formulation. In re Deepwater Horizon, 739 F.3d 790, 800–01 (5th Cir.2014) (“Deepwater Horizon II ”). These different approaches, sometimes used by the same circuit, reveal the deep confusion in this area of class action standing. While our en banc court had the opportunity to address and clarify this issue for our circuit, confused as it was by two separate panel opinions on one essential, constitutional issue, it has declined to do so. Admittedly, even this articulation would not have been enough for our sister circuits considering the deep split on this issue. Another court surely must resolve this.
We respectfully dissent.
In re DEEPWATER HORIZON, 13-30315, 2014 WL 2119279 (5th Cir. May 19, 2014)
6 separate circuit equally divided 3 to 3, with the 5th saying they will not make a ruling. Yeah, this will be granted cert.
This post was edited on 5/28/14 at 7:37 pm
Posted on 5/28/14 at 7:33 pm to Five0
I was pretty proud of that. I've been following this pretty damn closely.
The back and forth in the Fifth Circuit has been fascinating.
The back and forth in the Fifth Circuit has been fascinating.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:01 pm to Five0
quote:
We respectfully dissent.
Are you quoting from the dissenting justices on the 5th circuit??
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:14 pm to I B Freeman
That was from the opinion of the 5th not granting an en banc hearing of the appeal, so yes.
I think they see the writing on the wall in that 6 circuits are already divided on this formation of class and causation. They say as much in the opinion I directly cited. In other words they want or think the SCOTUS needs to clear this up once and for all.
I think they see the writing on the wall in that 6 circuits are already divided on this formation of class and causation. They say as much in the opinion I directly cited. In other words they want or think the SCOTUS needs to clear this up once and for all.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 9:04 am to Five0
As Five0 is aware, the writ and stay request was filed yesterday. Odds are, no writ will be granted, but nothing is for certain. As for a stay, I've not heard if one was issued or denied...time will (soon) tell.
Five, I'm no Rule 23 scholar, but if Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife, 504 U.S. 555, 560 (1992) was dispositive on that issue, I don't think the 5th Circuit would have voted 8-5 to deny the en banc request. When one has to quote his position from a dissent (and a poor one at that)... ...the writing is usually on the wall, and in ink.
Five, I'm no Rule 23 scholar, but if Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife, 504 U.S. 555, 560 (1992) was dispositive on that issue, I don't think the 5th Circuit would have voted 8-5 to deny the en banc request. When one has to quote his position from a dissent (and a poor one at that)... ...the writing is usually on the wall, and in ink.
This post was edited on 5/29/14 at 9:06 am
Posted on 5/29/14 at 9:29 am to Five0
"In other words they want or think the SCOTUS needs to clear this up once and for all."
Sure, the dissent wants this, but is this a case that really involves an issue as to standing. Think of it this way: in the absence of a settlement, a company in, say, Meridian, MS, would have had every right to sue BP for damages relating to the spill. The company would not be suing on behalf of someone else; it would be saying "I was harmed." Perhaps the company could prove that it suffered lossess actually caused by the spill, but that would properly viewed as a question of causation, not standing. Plenty of plaintiffs have standing to complain in court but may not prevail because they cannot prove causation. In the BP settlement, the process of proving causation was reduced to a formula, but the claimants are still pursuing recovery for their own losses.
My inquiry into this area has, admittedly, been superficial, but I think BP and the dissent have found a circuit split on an issue (because that is a way to get Supreme Court review), but they are having to strain mightily to make the circuit split apply to this case.
Sure, the dissent wants this, but is this a case that really involves an issue as to standing. Think of it this way: in the absence of a settlement, a company in, say, Meridian, MS, would have had every right to sue BP for damages relating to the spill. The company would not be suing on behalf of someone else; it would be saying "I was harmed." Perhaps the company could prove that it suffered lossess actually caused by the spill, but that would properly viewed as a question of causation, not standing. Plenty of plaintiffs have standing to complain in court but may not prevail because they cannot prove causation. In the BP settlement, the process of proving causation was reduced to a formula, but the claimants are still pursuing recovery for their own losses.
My inquiry into this area has, admittedly, been superficial, but I think BP and the dissent have found a circuit split on an issue (because that is a way to get Supreme Court review), but they are having to strain mightily to make the circuit split apply to this case.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 12:08 pm to Five0
The standing issue is a red herring. I don't pretend to know for certain how the SCOTUS will act, but if cert is granted it won't be because of that (although that could very well be the given reason). This has turned into a pretty complex political issue such that it transcends the usual divides of plaintiff-defendant, republican-democrat, conservative-liberal, etc.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:49 pm to USMCTiger03
quote:
This has turned into a pretty complex political issue such that it transcends the usual divides of plaintiff-defendant, republican-democrat, conservative-liberal, etc.
Agreed. That is why it is so interesting.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:55 pm to USMCTiger03
quote:
if cert is granted it won't be because of that (although that could very well be the given reason).
I agree with this. This is not a true Rule 10 case in my opinion. If cert gets granted it will be for the realpolitik reasons that (a) there are billions with a "b" at stake and (b) this is a very high-profile case. Rule 10 doesn't pretend to be an exhaustive list of the only things which the Court can consider, and they have unfettered discretion to grant or deny writs based on whatever reasons they may have.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 5:53 pm to Cold Cous Cous
Very interesting how this has all played out.
I understand that the BP parent company has guaranteed payment of the settlement as part of the settlement. Do you think there is angle in this somewhere they could still take BP USA bankrupt and avoid the settlement??
I am still amazed they agreed to the settlement. They could have simply fought every suit for what they are going to be out now.
I understand that the BP parent company has guaranteed payment of the settlement as part of the settlement. Do you think there is angle in this somewhere they could still take BP USA bankrupt and avoid the settlement??
I am still amazed they agreed to the settlement. They could have simply fought every suit for what they are going to be out now.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 5:57 pm to I B Freeman
A Good Read I think Scalia will kick the stay issue to the full court, and it's a loser. The writ request will ultimately meet the same fate. Just call me an optimist.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 6:10 pm to OTIS2
I knew when added Ted Olsen to the defense team they were ready to play the politics. He was not on the team that came up with the settlement was he?
Posted on 5/29/14 at 7:53 pm to I B Freeman
No. He was added when BP took a 180 degree turn on the settlement agreement.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 8:33 pm to OTIS2
Wwltv is running a story on the 10 o'clock news, something about multi justices on SC having to recuse themselves
Posted on 5/29/14 at 8:52 pm to TigerintheNO
They won't recuse themselves. Read the link I posted for the story.
Posted on 6/9/14 at 1:52 pm to OTIS2
The stay request was denied this morning. The writ request is still pending, but it'll likely meet a similar fate.
Posted on 6/9/14 at 2:15 pm to OTIS2
Got the west law alert on it but haven't read it yet. Thx
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