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Message
re: Debate... Zach v. Draconian Sanctions Topic: Cap Pun
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:55 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:55 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Draconian Sanctions
Made some surprisingly good points.
1
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:55 pm to willthezombie
RESOLUTION: Deep South conservatives are honorable human beings.
KCT approves this resolution. Draconian Sanction disagrees
You know, since he said he was tired of being surrounded by Deep South conservatives IN AUSTIN, TEXAS.
KCT approves this resolution. Draconian Sanction disagrees
You know, since he said he was tired of being surrounded by Deep South conservatives IN AUSTIN, TEXAS.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:56 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Well #1 you would think that for people on the right side of the aisle, those who frequently champion smaller government and demonize the role of the state, this would be an easy issue for them. Here we literally have the state murdering its own citizens. Is that not an extension of "big government"? You don't trust the state to hand out and monitor food stamps activities but you do trust them to carry out executions?
Yep.
quote:
#2 as we've seen recently, being convicted of murder and sentenced to death doesn't actually mean that you even did anything wrong
Better a thousand guilty men go free...
quote:
#3 The death penalty does not deter people from murder
Agree, though you'll be met with, "That's because it takes too long!!" I certainly made that argument when I was in favor of cap pun.
quote:
#4 The death penalty is ultimate act of vengeance. Is this something that we want the state to be involved in? Again the right often criticizes the role of emotion in policy making, saying that's a flawed position to start from. If that's the case then how is this situation different? People say to think of the victims and their families but should victims really be the ones we're listening to when doling out sentences? How is that equitable with the concept of judicial justice, where both sides are supposed to be given fair treatment? Obviously there is a public need to remove dangerous people from society, this is easily accomplished through life in prison.
That's honestly all it is. It's just as simple to jail them and lock away the key...but it doesn't FEEL as good.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:57 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Well #1 you would think that for people on the right side of the aisle, those who frequently champion smaller government and demonize the role of the state, this would be an easy issue for them. Here we literally have the state murdering its own citizens. Is that not an extension of "big government"? You don't trust the state to hand out and monitor food stamps activities but you do trust them to carry out executions?
Would it not take a jury of ones peers to execute said execution? Would you consider a jury of ones peers the state?
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:57 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Here we literally have the state murdering its own citizens. Is that not an extension of "big government"?
quote:
The death penalty is ultimate act of vengeance. Is this something that we want the state to be involved in?
quote:
Obviously there is a public need to remove dangerous people from society, this is easily accomplished through life in prison.
That's all you needed. Everyone isn't a lemming viewing the world through some false left/right paradigm.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:58 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Well #1 you would think that for people on the right side of the aisle, those who frequently champion smaller government and demonize the role of the state, this would be an easy issue for them. Here we literally have the state murdering its own citizens. Is that not an extension of "big government"? You don't trust the state to hand out and monitor food stamps activities but you do trust them to carry out executions?
#2 as we've seen recently, being convicted of murder and sentenced to death doesn't actually mean that you even did anything wrong LINK
#3 The death penalty does not deter people from murder LINK
#4 The death penalty is ultimate act of vengeance. Is this something that we want the state to be involved in? Again the right often criticizes the role of emotion in policy making, saying that's a flawed position to start from. If that's the case then how is this situation different? People say to think of the victims and their families but should victims really be the ones we're listening to when doling out sentences? How is that equitable with the concept of judicial justice, where both sides are supposed to be given fair treatment? Obviously there is a public need to remove dangerous people from society, this is easily accomplished through life in prison.
I dont see how anyone could disagree with this
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:58 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Just too fast for me
that is what she said
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:58 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
#2 as we've seen recently, being convicted of murder and sentenced to death doesn't actually mean that you even did anything wrong LINK
People get wrongly convicted of crimes all of the time. Does that mean that we should get rid of all punishments?
quote:
#4 The death penalty is ultimate act of vengeance.
No, it's perfect justice. Justice is eye for an eye. Anything less is mercy.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:59 pm to UncleFestersLegs
Damn, is UFL on DS's payroll?
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:00 pm to rb
quote:
Would it not take a jury of ones peers to execute said execution? Would you consider a jury of ones peers the state?
I could see this point a little better if the jury actually had to be the ones to pull the trigger.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:00 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
No, it's perfect justice. Justice is eye for an eye. Anything less is mercy.
-According to TN Bhoy.
Fixed it for you since you don't know what an opinion is.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:00 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
People get wrongly convicted of crimes all of the time. Does that mean that we should get rid of all punishments?
One that ends life? YES
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:00 pm to rb
quote:
Would it not take a jury of ones peers to execute said execution? Would you consider a jury of ones peers the state?
They determine guilt or innocence. The state determines whether or not to seek capital punishment and that is often a political decision not a moral or legal one. Jurors who oppose the death penalty can be disqualified from capital cases.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:01 pm to TheOcean
quote:
-According to Aristotle.
FTFY.
Note: I don't support capital punishment in the USA.
This post was edited on 3/13/14 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:01 pm to Zach
quote:
It's to prove that DS cannot argue points in a straight line. He deflects, obfuscates and uses emoticons. Yet, he is a lawyer.
quote:
If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:01 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
No, it's perfect justice. Justice is eye for an eye. Anything less is mercy.
Yet, the second half of the Bible, The New Testiment, preaches against that practice. It actively preaches forgiveness, to forgive debtors of their debts, to forgive others of their trespasses against you, and to turn the other cheek. There are some very good arguments in favor of Capital Punishment that can be made, but that is not one of them.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:02 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
Damn, is UFL on DS's payroll?
I think he's a knucklehead but he's right in this instance.
edit* a bit harsh :)
This post was edited on 3/13/14 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:02 pm to Draconian Sanctions
1. Good (really good)
2. Good
3. Good
4. Meh. For the purpose of arguing on this board I would have went with "what would Jesus Christ do"?
Good opening counselor.
2. Good
3. Good
4. Meh. For the purpose of arguing on this board I would have went with "what would Jesus Christ do"?
Good opening counselor.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:02 pm to TN Bhoy
-According to Aristotle and TN Bhoy's opinion
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:03 pm to kingbob
quote:
Yet, the second half of the Bible, The New Testiment, preaches against that practice. It actively preaches forgiveness, to forgive debtors of their debts, to forgive others of their trespasses against you, and to turn the other cheek. There are some very good arguments in favor of Capital Punishment that can be made, but that is not one of them.
I wasn't arguing for capital punishment. I'm pointing out that DS's point 4 is incorrect.
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