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Started By
Message
re: Corporations like single payer because it keeps healthcare off the balance sheet
Posted on 7/18/17 at 7:24 pm to bonhoeffer45
Posted on 7/18/17 at 7:24 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Right now, companies and their workers pay no taxes on health benefits. This means the federal government misses out on a lot of potential revenue — $260 billion in 2013, according to Congressional Budget Office data.
Dang. That's almost enough to buy everyone in the country a catastrophic plan.
1
Posted on 7/18/17 at 7:25 pm to oklahogjr
quote:Start calling docs for appointments. Tell htem you have Medicaid. It won't take you long to understand.
I still dont understand why republicans arent for it.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 7:28 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:It'll be no different than education. You pay school taxes for schools (in many cases) you'd dare not send your kids too. So you pay for private schools too. Double dipping. Then becase we've lowered standards so low, and no one learns anything of any use K-12... you get pay again at university...
I oppose paying more for something that has deteriorated in quality.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 7:29 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
Quality may ot msy not deteriorate. Also debatable how much of a decline if any in quality we would see.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 7:36 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:Just to put this in perspective... you have to tax almost every single dollar earned above $100k at 100%., and you'd still run almost a $1T deficit y-o-y.
The government spends close to a trillion on healthcare now, so we'd have to make up the additional 2.5 trillion. The total revenue of the federal government last year was 2.9 trillion.
This means we'd need an 86% percent increase in taxation to get back to the 2016 deficit.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 7:51 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
This means the federal government misses out on a lot of potential revenue — $260 billion in 2013,
Just think if people paid $260B more in taxes!! Then the economy would come roaring back.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 8:04 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
A tax increase in lieu of paying a premium doesn't seem ridiculous.
So if your tax increase doesn't cover the cost of your premium, your neighbor picks up the difference?
Posted on 7/18/17 at 8:06 pm to DaGarun
quote:
So if your tax increase doesn't cover the cost of your premium, your neighbor picks up the difference?
It's just another chance to transfer wealth. They wouldn't increase the taxes of the bottom 50%.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 8:11 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Well. 75% of all new medical procedures and treatments have come out of the U.S. over the last 30 years.
This is such an overlooked/ignored point
Posted on 7/18/17 at 10:51 pm to DaGarun
quote:Ultimately... many of us will discover we are the "neighbor" in this scenario. We'd have to double everyone's tax rates down to ~$50k/yr level to even sniff funding this.
So if your tax increase doesn't cover the cost of your premium, your neighbor picks up the difference?
Anyone up for that?
Posted on 7/18/17 at 11:26 pm to Hawkeye95
Maybe because a single payer system will have to be funded by some significant tax increases. And its likely that corporate tax increases will make up a good sized chunk of those increases that fund a single payer system.
The US government has proven over several decades that the military is the only program they're better at than the private sector. If government run healthcare is anything like going to the social security office or DMV, we're all fricked
The US government has proven over several decades that the military is the only program they're better at than the private sector. If government run healthcare is anything like going to the social security office or DMV, we're all fricked
Posted on 7/18/17 at 11:50 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
I still dont understand why republicans arent for it.
In one word...liberty.
The Founding Fathers knew just how precious liberty is.
How's it working in the England with little Charlie Gard? Their "death panel" saids, "unplug him."
This post was edited on 7/18/17 at 11:52 pm
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:18 am to oklahogjr
quote:
Quality may ot msy not deteriorate. Also debatable how much of a decline if any in quality we would see.
Quality would certainly deteriorate. I don't think any serious healthcare economist would debate that.
Actually, I should re-phrase that: innovation will definitely, 100%, certainly deteriorate - overall quality remains to be seen.
The U.S. is the source of nearly half of all global medical research and something like 70 - 80% of global healthcare IP.
Any large-scale tradeoff like this will have a strategic decision, and ours is between universal access and cost vs. innovation and progress. There is no such thing as a free lunch in any economic arena, and healthcare is no different.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:43 am to Tiger Prawn
quote:Even this is suspect. The military depends heavily on private contractors these days from chow to vehicle repairs.
The US government has proven over several decades that the military is the only program they're better at than the private sector.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 4:20 am to RatLTrap
quote:
Just increase corporate and capital gains taxes to pay for it. Problem solved
Yep, there it is. You solved it.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 4:54 am to Bjorn Cyborg
Single payer is government controlled socialism. The problem is there is no price competition for healthcare because the individual consumer does not know how much it cost. We know how much we pay for insurance and since many, if not most, have it deducted from our paychecks, we never have to write a check for it.
When you have single payer, like Canada, Europe, etc., the government, not free market competition, controls expenses, So it has a budget. Normal office visits and check up are cheap. Major surgeries and things like CAT scans and cancer treatment, are very expensive so they are limited.
This is controlled by rationing expensive procedures. That's why there are waiting lists in Canada and Europe and you see people coming to the USA for quality and unrestricted procedures like by pass surgery and cancer treatment.
Free market competition is the answer, not the inefficient government.
When you have single payer, like Canada, Europe, etc., the government, not free market competition, controls expenses, So it has a budget. Normal office visits and check up are cheap. Major surgeries and things like CAT scans and cancer treatment, are very expensive so they are limited.
This is controlled by rationing expensive procedures. That's why there are waiting lists in Canada and Europe and you see people coming to the USA for quality and unrestricted procedures like by pass surgery and cancer treatment.
Free market competition is the answer, not the inefficient government.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 5:29 am to gthog61
quote:
Since Medicare is running out of money in 2029 guess there will be huge tax increases.
Nope. They'll just use the new money Jeff Sessions raises through increased civil asset forfeiture without convictions.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 5:58 am to Bjorn Cyborg
Single payer won't work in the USA.
It won't even work in California, they already abandoned it.
It won't even work in California, they already abandoned it.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 6:15 am to the808bass
quote:
This is marginal savings (see 8-10%). Only decreases in utilization (which can only be forced by rationing) will have a major impact in bending the cost curve downwards. Quality and quantity will necessarily deteriorate or costs will not decrease.
This is correct
Our healthcare costs are so high because we demand the latest and greatest technology as well as every life saving measure necessary for 90+ year olds and 30 week old babies
In other countries these people go home to die. In other countries these people don't get $100,000 experimental chemotherapy drugs. In other countries those 30 week old babies aren't included in infant mortality rates.
Go read the ridiculous NY Times article today that says we should emulate Rawanda's medical system
They cite Rawanda's use of peritoneal dialysis instead of more advanced dialysis to save money as a great example
More
the NYT is such horrible shite journalism You think people in this country will be ok with us using inferior technologies or palliative care to reduce costs?
This post was edited on 7/19/17 at 6:17 am
Posted on 7/19/17 at 6:16 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Corporations like single payer because it keeps healthcare off the balance sheet Do those companies cut health insurance for their retirees when they are Medicare eligible?
The company I work does.
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