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re: Corporations like single payer because it keeps healthcare off the balance sheet
Posted on 7/18/17 at 5:58 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
Posted on 7/18/17 at 5:58 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Do those companies cut health insurance for their retirees when they are Medicare eligible?
It depends. There are different rules depending on the size of the company. Generally a person who is still working will enroll in Medicare Part A on reaching 65. They may or may not enroll in Part B depending on the circumstances.
0
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:00 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
I think costs go down with the ability have a stronger bargaining position with suppliers.
This is marginal savings (see 8-10%). Only decreases in utilization (which can only be forced by rationing) will have a major impact in bending the cost curve downwards.
Quality and quantity will necessarily deteriorate or costs will not decrease.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:01 pm to oklahogjr
I
quote:.
think costs go down with the ability have a stronger bargaining position with suppliers
Medicare has more leverage than any provider in the country and is the greatest driver of expanding costs. Did you not see the cost projection for California's universal plan?
Of course quality will decrease. Healthcare is a commodity that will be spread across a wider population under UHC coverage.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:02 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
I think costs go down with the ability have a stronger bargaining position with suppliers.
This explains the massive success of Venezuela, USSR, etc
quote:No. It really isn't. The only way it's debatable is for one of the parties in the debate to not know What they are talking about
Quality may ot msy not deteriorate. Also debatable how much of a decline if any in quality we would see.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:02 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Do those companies cut health insurance for their retirees when they are Medicare eligible?
Hell, plenty of companies cut their retirement plans to the bones after Medicare part D passed.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:04 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
The only way it's debatable is for one of the parties in the debate to not know What they are talking about
Coincidentally, we are posting with oklahogjr.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:05 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
I think costs go down with the ability have a stronger bargaining position with suppliers.
One of the humorous ongoing occurrences of doublespeak on the right centers around this. Where you will hear someone bitching about lower reimbursement rates from Medicare and Medicaid while even in the same paragraph trying to claim that government run programs are poor substitutes for private insurers.
Medicaid and Medicare get better prices for their members due to increased bargaining power, economies of scale, demand opportunity, and just the weight of the government's hand. Its why only about 70% of doctors take Medicaid because they negotiate higher rates with the lower leveraged and fractious private market. But higher prices mean consumers pay more. Its just basic numbers.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:09 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Medicaid and Medicare get better prices for their members due to increased bargaining power
I'm pretty sure it's illegal to give a better discount than Medicare or Medicaid get. It may be why they have such "bargaining power."
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:11 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
This explains the massive success of Venezuela, USSR, etc
Cause theyre the only countries with UHC?
quote:
The only way it's debatable is for one of the parties in the debate to not know What they are talking about
Can i see your evidence? Gotta be easy almost every country converted to it at this point. Surely all their healthcare showed a drastic decrease? Or a majority?
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:12 pm to the808bass
If every single health payment was based on Medicaid, nearly every medical sector provider would see huge decreases in revenue
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:14 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
taxes are out of the CEO's control and not considered his problem.
Try telling the CEO that when the effective tax rate spikes as a result of a prior period adjustment.
Back to the topic, i don't many large corps would complain although if the healthcare systems drops in quality as a result of single payer we will all feel it.
This post was edited on 7/18/17 at 6:17 pm
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:15 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
We have been moving towards more free shite, not less.
It isn't free if you pay taxes. The people who don't pay taxes already have free medical. A tax increase in lieu of paying a premium doesn't seem ridiculous.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:17 pm to the808bass
quote:
I'm pretty sure it's illegal to give a better discount than Medicare or Medicaid get. It may be why they have such "bargaining power."
Even if this were true, then by this logic you would expect the private market to be damn close, like right up to the line. But they aren't.
Now I want to say that this is not me endorsing the totality of how and how much Medicaid/Medicare reimburses. It is just to say that they are effective at getting lower prices.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:21 pm to the808bass
quote:
I'm pretty sure it's illegal to give a better discount than Medicare or Medicaid get. It may be why they have such "bargaining power."
^^^
This is true
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:21 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Even if this were true
It is true.
quote:
then by this logic you would expect the private market to be damn close, like right up to the line. But they aren't.
Like if Medicare allowed $70 per average physician office visit, then a private insurer would pay a whopping $76 per average office visit. Amazing. Night and day.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:22 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
If every single health payment was based on Medicaid, nearly every medical sector provider would see huge decreases in revenue
That is the trade off that exists in stronger negotiated pricing for consumers. Private or public.
Now it is a bit more dynamic then that. If prices come down then more people will be able to afford consuming the product and more of it. So there is a bit of balancing act. But yeah, that is the basic relationship.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:24 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
If every single health payment was based on Medicaid, nearly every medical sector provider would see huge decreases in revenue
You would drive droves of doctors into boutique medicine.
This post was edited on 7/18/17 at 6:25 pm
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:24 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
That is the trade off that exists in stronger negotiated pricing for consumers. Private or public.
Let's say you achieve a cost savings of 20% with a public option (lol). How many people lose their jobs in this scenario?
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:24 pm to the808bass
quote:
It is true.
Source?
quote:
Like if Medicare allowed $70 per average physician office visit, then a private insurer would pay a whopping $76 per average office visit. Amazing. Night and day.
Still proving my point, just arguing matter of degrees.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 6:26 pm to bonhoeffer45
If your planned acceptable savings from the implementation of a public option are 8%, the the whole world is going to laugh at you.
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