re: Are public schools still the great equalizer?

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the schools aren't better

the school populations are better

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I actually think we're both right. Children of the well-to-do are probably more likely to be better prepared and driven in school. However, I would wager that you still see your best teachers in these schools which which is a double-whammy.

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that and you allow the best inner city kids to get away from teh pieces of shite who destroy their educational opportunities

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Again, I find it questionable that a poor, inner city student is going to be able to travel 20 miles to the "good" school. That doesn't really seem to be an acceptable solution.

Unfortunately, I don't know that a good solution exists other than something like the did in "The Wire" where the severely disruptive students are removed from the ones who are trying and are moved into a hyper focused behavioral remediation program. The issue is enormous and I honestly dont know that theres a good solution to it.

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At least give them school choice

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How would you do that though? Who gets the public assets in the privatization movement?

If you give every poor kid a voucher, they're all going to want to go to a better school, and there will be no room for much of them.

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the problem with the liberal mindset on education (and diversity in general) is that it believes that if you put people of low value/culture and people of high value/culture (this shifts depending on the area we're discussing. in this instance it's people who give a frick about education and people who don't give a frick about education), there will be an osmosis that teaches the low value/culture how to improve themsleves

but in reality, it's the opposite. the low value/culture group, more often than not, drags down the high value/culture

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My public high school was in a school district that had a program busing inner city kids out to the suburbs and I can tell you for a fact you hit the nail on the head. The program did not pick the kids that wanted to learn. It just randomly selected the ones sent to us. We had a few that appreciated being there and did just as well as anyone else but the vast majority would have behavior problems or worse bring in drugs and start fights. Most of the kids lasted a quarter at most before being expelled and bringing in a new kid. Looking back I feel bad because that program did those kids a disservice. Most of them were barely literate had to feel so out of place. Unfortunately, if you don't catch the at risk kids when they are kindergarten age they really have no chance.

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How would these capable kids getting screwed in inner cities fund their privatized education?

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Exactly. Yes, this is a bad environment for smart kids to thrive in, but public schools are absolutely necessary. If it was completely privatized, watch crime rates almost double within a single generation. They won't be able to read, do basic math, and really know anything that doesn't directly come from their neighborhoods and become more violent as a whole.

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Most people just wanna say "hey, its bad parenting!" and throw up their arms and frick it!

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Yeah, but what would you think these bad parents would do if everything became either charter schools or privatized? Think they'd pony up some cash to get their kid educated in any way? Absolutely not, and in about 10 years, that kid is going to be even worse off than he would have been if he at least had some semblance of an education, and to apply to even be a burger flipper, they may now have to require literacy to work when it would never cross anyone's mind if someone could read or not.

Imagine if you had to shop at a certain grocery store or supermarket based on where you live. Whether or not this store carried good food or food you like is irrelevant. You are assigned to that store because you live nearby. The store might run out of some of the goods you need, but you can't shop at another store. The staff might do its job poorly, but you can't shop at another store. Or the other customers could be tainting the food, but you can't shop at another store, because this is your store that you've been assigned to.

We wouldn't settle for this. There would be public outcry. Yet this country has accepted this system for feeding the minds of our children.

Poor grades or discipline in high school should be rewarded with mandatory community service or fines/partial loss of gubmit benefits.

There is no sense in spending money trying to educate a kid who doesn't want it. Find a way to get some use out of the tax dollars we are spending, or start taking some of it from his/her parents.

I hear that tired argument about how much we spend to hold a person in prison vs. educate them. In my opinion, we spend way too much on prisons because they are way to comfortable.We spent plenty on schools, we just aren't getting dick for our investment.

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Capable kids in inner cities are getting absolutely screwed, and I am not sure privatization is as bad a thing as democrats assert.

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Don't forget about the capable kids in rural schools. They don't have funding either and the best teachers don't want to work there, but everyone acts like the inner city is the only area that happens.