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re: Are public schools still the great equalizer?
Posted on 8/6/14 at 11:56 pm to CrimsonWhite
Posted on 8/6/14 at 11:56 pm to CrimsonWhite
quote:
I'm very much in favor of anything that helps our students, and I believe magnet schools do that. The best and brightest have the right to attend a school that targets their ability levels and interests and reduces the distractions of bad behavior and/or apathy.
My impression is that they do work. It just seems like there are too many students that want in versus the number of slots. Again that's just my impression, I may be wrong.
1
Posted on 8/7/14 at 7:31 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
I say no, for the American public k-12 school system itself is one of the most grossly unequal institutions in the nation.
One can literally use a zip-code directory to determine if the kids are getting prepared for college or if the school simply struggles with gangs.
Capable kids in inner cities are getting absolutely screwed, and I am not sure privatization is as bad a thing as democrats assert.
And for the folks who will reply that this is a problem with culture, not the school, then I still hold that choice will save the ones with potential.
Horace Mann is rolling in his grave.
I agree 100%. The inequity in our education system is the gravest injustice in this nation (perhaps 2nd only to our propensity to send as many people to prison as possible).
Most people just wanna say "hey, its bad parenting!" and throw up their arms and frick it!
Posted on 8/7/14 at 7:44 am to The Third Leg
quote:At least give them school choice.
How would these capable kids getting screwed in inner cities fund their privatized education?
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:09 am to wfeliciana
We couldn't go to the British system because if we tried too many dumbass Minorities would kick and scream about how hard it is for their kids.
I see it all the time, they don't want kids to be challenged in school they want a free A grade just like they want free food and healthcare. It makes them feel better about themselves
I see it all the time, they don't want kids to be challenged in school they want a free A grade just like they want free food and healthcare. It makes them feel better about themselves
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:16 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
One can literally use a zip-code directory to determine if the kids are getting prepared for college or if the school simply struggles with gangs.
Yup. But it's not a funding problem. It's a priority problem among parents and students.
quote:
Capable kids in inner cities are getting absolutely screwed, and I am not sure privatization is as bad a thing as democrats assert.
Yup. I would like to see a major push for more affordable private schools...that is....simply have more private schools. By removing the bottom 10 -15% of students who are "unavailable to learn" our quality of education will skyrocket.
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:17 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Honestly, our entire education system, from primary all the way through post-secondary, is completely FUBAR.
Our youth and economy are suffering because of it.
Whole thing needs to be scrapped and rebuilt from scratch. Something that drastic would never happen, but hopefully we can pull our heads out of our arses to accomplish piecemeal reform.
Our youth and economy are suffering because of it.
Whole thing needs to be scrapped and rebuilt from scratch. Something that drastic would never happen, but hopefully we can pull our heads out of our arses to accomplish piecemeal reform.
This post was edited on 8/7/14 at 8:23 am
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:27 am to SpidermanTUba
quote:
Most people just wanna say "hey, its bad parenting!" and throw up their arms and frick it!
so what do you propose we do about the bad parents and the bad students that not only skew the stats, but destroy educations for kids who want to learn?
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:28 am to a want
quote:
By removing the bottom 10 -15% of students who are "unavailable to learn" our quality of education will skyrocket.
basically for every bad stat of the US, this is true. our top is still the top. our bottom is much, much worse than other developed nations
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:28 am to SlowFlowPro
Not when the rich send their kids to private schools and then refuse to fund the public schools enough.
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:31 am to JEAUXBLEAUX
the public schools get more money per student than those private schools (typically). it's not about money
it's about the quality of student. i don't just mean intelligence, the valuation of education is the biggest issue
if you throw a bunch of kids who don't give a frick about education, being raised by parents who didn't give a frick about education as students, who don't give a frick about devoting personal resources to fostering an attitude of care/valuing education, perpetuating the lower class mindset that purposefully devalues education, then what do you think will be the output of this population?
it's about the quality of student. i don't just mean intelligence, the valuation of education is the biggest issue
if you throw a bunch of kids who don't give a frick about education, being raised by parents who didn't give a frick about education as students, who don't give a frick about devoting personal resources to fostering an attitude of care/valuing education, perpetuating the lower class mindset that purposefully devalues education, then what do you think will be the output of this population?
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:33 am to wfeliciana
quote:
My impression is that they do work. It just seems like there are too many students that want in versus the number of slots. Again that's just my impression, I may be wrong.
Sure they work for the brighter kids, but what about kids that are average in intelligence, who want to learn, but are stuck in a school with the "leftovers" who didn't get into a magnet school or who could care less.
What about a magnet school in reverse?
What about schools where you remove the bad element, where to take out the kids who are discipline problems, and then the leftovers would all be kids who wanted to do right and learn?
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:34 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Capable kids in inner cities are getting absolutely screwed, and I am not sure privatization is as bad a thing as democrats assert.
Im not very well read on this subject so honest question. The enormous inequality between inner city schools and others isn't a geographic problem, its an economic one. The richer the area the better the public schools. Obviously the government isn't doing a great job addressing this issue, but I cant really see how privatization would do anything but magnify this issue. Just as in any job marketplace the most talented teachers will move to the areas with the greatest means to pay them. How does privatization serve to alleviate this issue? Is it because there are no geographical restrictions for the school and therefore competition drives advancement across the board? If so, my guess would be that people who are poor can't really afford to go across the county for a good school even if technically allowed to.
Enlighten me.
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if you throw a bunch of kids who don't give a frick about education, being raised by parents who didn't give a frick about education as students, who don't give a frick about devoting personal resources to fostering an attitude of care/valuing education, perpetuating the lower class mindset that purposefully devalues education, then what do you think will be the output of this population?
agree
I have a relative who is a public school teacher. He just moved from one of the wealthiest/best public schools in Maryland to one of the worst public schools in Mississippi. Before school started he went on and on about racism, improper funding etc (he makes Rex look like Pat Buchanan). Having been on the job for 2 days he's already changing his tune.
The kids can't even line up. They don't answer when their name is called. They have no respect for their teachers...it's like the teachers are their enemies and parents are allies. One of the kids (a 5th grader) told him to frick off . These are elementary school kids!
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:40 am to AUbused
quote:
The richer the area the better the public schools.
the schools aren't better
the school populations are better
quote:
Obviously the government isn't doing a great job addressing this issue
how do you propose the government can make populations better with regards to education?
quote:
ow does privatization serve to alleviate this issue? Is it because there are no geographical restrictions for the school and therefore competition drives advancement across the board?
that and you allow the best inner city kids to get away from teh pieces of shite who destroy their educational opportunities
the disruptive, violent kids who only seek to disrupt educations of kids who are trying to learn will not be allowed very many options. grouped together into their own little hells
the problem with the liberal mindset on education (and diversity in general) is that it believes that if you put people of low value/culture and people of high value/culture (this shifts depending on the area we're discussing. in this instance it's people who give a frick about education and people who don't give a frick about education), there will be an osmosis that teaches the low value/culture how to improve themsleves
but in reality, it's the opposite. the low value/culture group, more often than not, drags down the high value/culture
everyone loses
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:41 am to a want
quote:
The kids can't even line up. They don't answer when their name is called. They have no respect for their teachers...it's like the teachers are their enemies and parents are allies. One of the kids (a 5th grader) told him to frick off . These are elementary school kids!
Ever seen "The Wire". If you havent, you should. That show, in generally, is meticulously detailed and I would wager very accurate. The episodes with the inner city school system are horrifying and show you just what kind of challenge we are facing. The thing is, solving that problem is to the benefit of society as a whole as its tied directly to poverty, crime and general drain on society.
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:42 am to AUbused
quote:
The richer the area the better the public schools.
In my state the more wealthy areas subsidizes the poorer areas. But the problem has nothing to do with money. It has to do with a correlation between poor communities and their attitude toward education. You can send a bunch of kids to the Harvard of elementary schools but if they don't value education and their parents don't care, the outcome will be the same as it would in any school.
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:43 am to CrimsonWhite
I went to an inner city school (Lincoln) and concur on disruptive kids being an issue. We need more local control with all parties involved (educators and parents). It needs to be voluntary with vouchers for the outliers (smart kids and struggling ones). There needs to be a much stronger emphasis on vocational skills with apprenticeships as well. Belgium has a great model.
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:47 am to a want
quote:
But the problem has nothing to do with money
Exactly.
quote:
It has to do with a correlation between poor communities and their attitude toward education. You can send a bunch of kids to the Harvard of elementary schools but if they don't value education and their parents don't care, the outcome will be the same as it would in any school.
Exactly again. While it's not the entire problem, the culture and attitude is a huge part. People try to ignore it and pretend like it's a matter of qualified and talented teachers.
Teacher education and certification needs to be revamped along with the whole system in my opinion.
However, acting as if the solution lies just in getting enough funding and putting the right teachers in place is akin to believing that you can build a 747 by placing a junkyard in the path of a tornado.
This post was edited on 8/7/14 at 8:48 am
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:48 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Are public schools still the great equalizer?
...what a frickin' joke!!! Progressive Democrats and the federal government have destroyed public education!!!....and that debate is over!!
Proud of yourselves asswhipes???
Posted on 8/7/14 at 8:48 am to RollTide4Ever
This is an interesting point on vocation skills. One of the knocks against the "let's just get rid of the bottom 10%" approach is what do you do with the bottom 10%? Votec is a great option. And if a kid makes good grades and wants to rejoin the other 90%, I'm all for it. To those who show interest - I'm up for just about anthing, but don't poison the well just b/c we want to make sure the bottom 10% is "educated". That's what we're currently doing.
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