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re: Watch this video, and tell me NBA superstars didn't have it easier in the '90's
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:26 pm to AlaTiger
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:26 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
But, there was also lots of transition play and motion on offense and the game was a lot more fluid. Guys could shoot from all over the floor so you had to go with them and extend the defense. Sure, man to man defense was required, but you didn't have to stick to your man like glue. You could play off of him quite a bit and then collapse in help defense when someone drove the paint.
So if they could shoot from all over the floor, how could you play off?
This post was edited on 4/16/15 at 10:28 pm
1
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:27 pm to DMagic
Yes, of course they missed a lot of shots in the 90s too. I am talking about the overall quality of the game. Shooting, overall, was better back then when players had open looks. I am pretty amazed at how many guys miss wide open shots now.
Call it anectdotal if you want, but I think that shooting is worse when it comes to players missing open shots and I think that that has changed the way that the game is played.
Call it anectdotal if you want, but I think that shooting is worse when it comes to players missing open shots and I think that that has changed the way that the game is played.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:27 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
This video says a lot more about how amazing Jordan was than it does about the point that you are trying to make.
Yea this is a horrible thread based on this alone.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:27 pm to AlaTiger
It's honestly just a really tough argument for either side because the rule changes have caused a difference in the way the game is played. Maybe we would view the big men of today differently if not for those changes. I feel like there are a ton of bigs in the league that would dominate without help defense much like the bigs of the 90s.
Players are much bigger, faster, stronger in today's game, that isn't a debate. I do believe AAU Iso ball has caused some development issues with a large number of the players in the league now.
Players are much bigger, faster, stronger in today's game, that isn't a debate. I do believe AAU Iso ball has caused some development issues with a large number of the players in the league now.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:36 pm to AlaTiger
Shooting has been the same or better now. The 3 point line has changed, the lanes have changed, the defense around the rim has changed, and the defense today is better than its ever been.
You used the Pacers/Grizz game as a barometer for poor shooting when both teams were beat up but were still two of the better defensive teams in the league. The pacers had held their last like 6 opponents to less than 42% shooting. The Grizzlies have been a defensive stalwart for the past few years and possibly will have three all-NBA defense.
You used the Pacers/Grizz game as a barometer for poor shooting when both teams were beat up but were still two of the better defensive teams in the league. The pacers had held their last like 6 opponents to less than 42% shooting. The Grizzlies have been a defensive stalwart for the past few years and possibly will have three all-NBA defense.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:37 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
quote:
But, there was also lots of transition play and motion on offense and the game was a lot more fluid. Guys could shoot from all over the floor so you had to go with them and extend the defense. Sure, man to man defense was required, but you didn't have to stick to your man like glue. You could play off of him quite a bit and then collapse in help defense when someone drove the paint.
So if they could shoot from all over the floor, how could you play off?
That was the dilemma and partly why offenses would put up 130 points on a given night. It wasn't just because defense was bad. It was because you had so much ground to cover on defense, offenses were moving, and guys could shoot, drive, and distribute the ball.
Again, there are great players today who would have been great back then too. Bigs like Nowitzki, for example (of course, developed in Europe), stretch the floor and play similar to the way that game was played in the past. But, people forget that guys like Bill Lambeer, the seven foot center for the Pistons, would hit 3s regularly too.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:38 pm to PrimeTime Money
showing the greatest player of all time, using that as the basis for argument
notice how LeBron isn't getting touched and how easily he gets to the lane
notice how LeBron isn't getting touched and how easily he gets to the lane
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:39 pm to AlaTiger
Pick and pop
This post was edited on 4/16/15 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:40 pm to DMagic
quote:
You used the Pacers/Grizz game as a barometer for poor shooting when both teams were beat up but were still two of the better defensive teams in the league. The pacers had held their last like 6 opponents to less than 42% shooting. The Grizzlies have been a defensive stalwart for the past few years and possibly will have three all-NBA defense.
I used the Pacers/Grizzlies game as an example because I watched it last night and I was thinking, "No one is moving on offense. Everyone is just standing around for 18 seconds of the shot clock. Geez, this is horrid to watch." Those were my exact thoughts LAST NIGHT. The announcers essentially said the same thing. So, we are all hoping for a long rebound so we can get some transition play. It is no wonder that scoring is so low. It isn't all because of great defense. No one moves for 18 of the 24 seconds of the shot clock in many instances.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:43 pm to stout
Okay, I typed in "Penny Hardaway highlights" and clicked on the first video I found.
It's the same thing... especially from 40 in is when it's ridiculous.
Watch from 0:40 seconds on and look at how much space he has and how isolated he is. It's absurd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbWXxr0ge8
It's the same thing... especially from 40 in is when it's ridiculous.
Watch from 0:40 seconds on and look at how much space he has and how isolated he is. It's absurd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbWXxr0ge8
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:43 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:
showing the greatest player of all time, using that as the basis for argument notice how LeBron isn't getting touched and how easily he gets to the lane
Yeah. He got to the basket rather easily. Amazing how that happens, isn't it?
Good point.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:46 pm to dgtiger3
quote:
Players are much bigger, faster, stronger in today's game, that isn't a debate.
Today's game vs. the 1990s or vs. 1970s?
You realize the '90s weren't that long ago, and that two active players that were considered top 5 players in the league no more than 5 years ago started playing in the '90s? Hell, someone here previously was saying the '90s were full of short white guys.
As for the defenses, yes, you had more man-to-man, but there was also hand-checking, the presence of at least two bigs clogging the lane, and in some cases the flat out mugging of penetrating wings (see: Daly's and Riley's teams).
Also, I'd like to hear what guys like Kobe, Wade and Harden have done in recent years under the new rules/changing offensive-defensive schemes that someone like MJ couldn't have done himself under similar circumstances.
This post was edited on 4/16/15 at 10:47 pm
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:49 pm to PrimeTime Money
So you make an assessment of 90's play using a highlight video of best player ever. Clever.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:50 pm to mattz1122
quote:
You realize the '90s weren't that long ago
You didn't hear how much humans have evolved in just 20 years?
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:53 pm to AlaTiger
quote:This is a load of crap. I just looked up on basketball-reference the number of seasons where a player who was 6'9" or taller made at least 32% of their 3-point shots.
Bigs like Nowitzki, for example (of course, developed in Europe), stretch the floor and play similar to the way that game was played in the past. But, people forget that guys like Bill Lambeer, the seven foot center for the Pistons, would hit 3s regularly too.
You wanna know what I found out?
#1 is Dirk Nowitzki with 16 seasons shooting at least 32% from 3.
13 out of the top 20 played the majority of their career in the 2000's.
How about number 20-40?
16 out of the next 20 on the list were from the 2000's.
That means out of the top 40 big men 3-point shooters, 29 out of 40 are from the 2000's era.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:53 pm to mattz1122
quote:
As for the defenses, yes, you had more man-to-man, but there was also hand-checking, the presence of at least two bigs clogging the lane, and in some cases the flat out mugging of penetrating wings (see: Daly's and Riley's teams)
THIS.
Handchecking, bumping, absolute battles for position with arms flailing, hooking, grabbing, punching, and brutalizing your opponent were common. Fights happened regularly because of how physical the game was in the paint. You don't see much of that anymore.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:53 pm to stout
To some of these kids the '90s were literally a lifetime ago.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:53 pm to DollaChoppa
It's crazy, but the best player ever might have been the most skilled and technically sound basketball player ever too. He got every bit out of his athleticism and every bit out of his skill and work ethic
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:54 pm to AlaTiger
Shooting stats across the board (excluding the shortened 3PT line years) have stayed fairly consistent over the years as has scoring in general. A poor offensive game just happens to be what's freshest in your mind.
If teams are missing more open shots now it's because they're taking more threes.
If teams are missing more open shots now it's because they're taking more threes.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:55 pm to AlaTiger
Again you're talking about two beat up clubs who are defensive teams. If they were healthy you would see playoff level basketball. Even with Mike the Grizz aren't a great offensive team at times because we like to slug it out. It's almost like you've never watched us play. It's been that way since Zach got here.
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