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re: Why don't the Cavs like Kevin Love
Posted on 3/26/15 at 12:33 pm to brgfather129
Posted on 3/26/15 at 12:33 pm to brgfather129
I'm honestly torn about the situation. At one end of the spectrum.. If you are going to get a stretch 4 it might as well be the best in the game who is also an elite rebounder..
At the other end, maybe a guy like Ryan Anderson would fill that role just as well and free up 10+ mill and allow for the Cavs to get a good backup pg and some other role players.
I like Love and think his game will increase as he finally gets fitted into a role. I think no matter what, he opts into the last year of his contract this summer so he can be a FA when the big money starts coming in next summer.
Next offseason\regular season will be the key in seeing if Love stays (also their post season success this season and next). I really don't think we are seeing the full system Blatt wants to run. He kind of had to scrape most of it at the beginning of the year due to their problems and the trade. Now they are just sitting K Love in the corner to open up space for Kyrie most of the time (which works) but isn't the most effective thing.
Honestly, even with Kevin Love struggling to fit and shooting terribly from the field and going through some minor injuries (the back thing is a real thing if you ask me. Been nagging him all season). He's still averaging 17\10. If he was shooting the same averages as he was last year he would be around 19/10 which is pretty fricking good.
If this same thing happens next year and he doesn't like his role, he will packaged in a trade to a different team (lakers\celtics most likely) so they can get early bird rights and give him a real max deal.
That's how I see things playing out anyways.
At the other end, maybe a guy like Ryan Anderson would fill that role just as well and free up 10+ mill and allow for the Cavs to get a good backup pg and some other role players.
I like Love and think his game will increase as he finally gets fitted into a role. I think no matter what, he opts into the last year of his contract this summer so he can be a FA when the big money starts coming in next summer.
Next offseason\regular season will be the key in seeing if Love stays (also their post season success this season and next). I really don't think we are seeing the full system Blatt wants to run. He kind of had to scrape most of it at the beginning of the year due to their problems and the trade. Now they are just sitting K Love in the corner to open up space for Kyrie most of the time (which works) but isn't the most effective thing.
Honestly, even with Kevin Love struggling to fit and shooting terribly from the field and going through some minor injuries (the back thing is a real thing if you ask me. Been nagging him all season). He's still averaging 17\10. If he was shooting the same averages as he was last year he would be around 19/10 which is pretty fricking good.
If this same thing happens next year and he doesn't like his role, he will packaged in a trade to a different team (lakers\celtics most likely) so they can get early bird rights and give him a real max deal.
That's how I see things playing out anyways.
0
Posted on 3/26/15 at 12:50 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
Because he's white
And because he's more than likely had a completely different upbringing in a great environment.
He's from Lake Oswego which is one of the richest areas in the Portland metro area.
Dey hate da white man....
Posted on 3/26/15 at 1:07 pm to Cherokee Chinstrap
quote:If they don't win and he leaves after this season, it'll obviously go down as a bad trade, but I'd still think CLE was correct for making the move at the time.
If Love opts out and leaves after the season (assuming Cavs don't win the championship) this deal is going to go down as one of the worst if not the worst in recent memory. Wiggins looks as if he is going to be a perennial all star and the Cavs will have essentially shipped him away with a first round pick for a one year rental.The only positive about this trade will have been the fact that they were able to pass Anthony Bennett off.
It was almost universally accepted that Lebron/Love would be a great fit, I don’t think anyone predicted Love would be this bad, sitting out of 4th quarters type bad.
Second, Wiggins, like most youngsters, will take 3 or so years to round into form, which is wasting some of Lebron’s final prime years.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 1:13 pm to shel311
quote:
Second, Wiggins, like most youngsters, will take 3 or so years to round into form, which is wasting some of Lebron’s final prime years.
This x100.
Your franchise is LeBron, you don't waste 3 years of his career on waiting for Wiggins to develop and making a run in 3 years. It is about now for 3 years and Love fits the now.
Proven PF that can help you win within the next 5 years > potential superstar that may or may not help you win 5+ years from now.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 1:34 pm to RedRifle
Another day, another shitty red rifle thread
Posted on 3/26/15 at 1:59 pm to LSUintheNW
Really? Lebron goes OUT of his way to not be that guy when it comes to alienation. He calls Big Z his big brother, the guy who taught him how to be a professional and I bet they have nothing in common when it came to growing up.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 2:05 pm to htran90
quote:
Your franchise is LeBron, you don't waste 3 years of his career on waiting for Wiggins to develop and making a run in 3 years. It is about now for 3 years and Love fits the now
They would've been in the Finals this year with or without Love.
Only benefit to the Love trade at this point is that it indirectly led to acquiring Mozgov/JR Smith/Shumpert and allowed them to offload Waiters. That's it. If we believe they would've made those acquisitions anyway then it's a total failure.
This Cavs team with Wiggins minus Love would be better now and moving forward.
This post was edited on 3/26/15 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 3/26/15 at 2:11 pm to Goldrush25
quote:Love definitely helps this team, so it's not a given they'll be in the Finals either way.
They would've been in the Finals this year with or without Love
And again, at the time, I really don't recall anyone thinking it would be THIS bad.
quote:I don't think they would. I think Wiggins wouldn't be getting very many minutes to make too much of a difference.
This Cavs team with Wiggins minus Love would be better now
Posted on 3/26/15 at 2:13 pm to Ostrich
Posted on 3/26/15 at 2:14 pm to RedRifle
Perkins won't smile for nothing!!!
Posted on 3/26/15 at 2:19 pm to shel311
He is one scary looking dude
Posted on 3/26/15 at 2:21 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:Obviously no one is bullying Kendrick Perkins, but he looks like the kid who never talks, always gets bullied, just keeps taking it and taking it...then 1 day he snaps.
He is one scary looking dude
Posted on 3/26/15 at 2:22 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
They would've been in the Finals this year with or without Love.
While likely, because the East sucks, they actually have a chance of WINNING the finals this year with him. Without Love they don't have a chance of winning against the West.
quote:
This Cavs team with Wiggins minus Love would be better now and moving forward.
100% wrong. Andrew Wiggins on this team with no Kevin Love is maybe a slightly better defensive team but a much worse offensive team.
Kevin Love, like Bosh in Miami, get's no credit for what he does. Not only is he going 17\10 (very good numbers for a #3 option) he is also spacing the floor for Kyrie and LeBron because of his 3 pt shooting. This allows LeBron and Kyrie the ability to drive the lane much easier and get to the line or make easy layups. Without Love, Tristan Thompson is most likely the starting PF and his offensive game is average. Get's most his points off putbacks and offensive rebounds.
Now, let's discuss Wiggins on this team. Wiggins is a SF. So is LeBron.. This is awkward. So obviously he wouldn't be a starter unless they moved him to SG. If he was their starting SG they wouldn't have gotten Shumpert or JR Smith because they would have had 2-3 SGs on the roster (Waiters/Miller/Wiggins) and wouldn't need to add depth. They probably would keep Waiters because they would need his offense (Wiggins in this offense averages MAYBE 8 pts per game. And that's if he's a starter). They would have no doubt traded for Mozgov eventually because they were looking at him before the season even started.
This team without JR Smith and Kevin Love = very weak 3 pt shooting team which has been one of the keys to them getting hot lately. Since the trade they lead the league in 3 pters.
Andrew Wiggins on this team right now would play a role similar to Iman Shumpert. Solid role player but not going to make a huge difference. The Cavaliers are playing to win the championship now. Not to have a guy be a superstar in 3+ years and take the reigns from Lebron when he is seriously declining.
You don't waste the prime of a top 5 player of all time so you can get his replacement in 5 years who MIGHT be a superstar.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 4:56 pm to shel311
quote:
Second, Wiggins, like most youngsters, will take 3 or so years to round into form, which is wasting some of Lebron’s final prime years.
I agree that Wiggins will take some time to develop into a star player as opposed to a very good player. However, I still believe that Wiggins playing at his current level is a better fit for the Cavs right now than Love is, or ever will be. I don't really see how Wiggins would be "wasting" LeBron's prime years because it's not like he's an incredibly raw player who needs to be coddled.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 5:05 pm to Cherokee Chinstrap
quote:
agree that Wiggins will take some time to develop into a star player as opposed to a very good player. However, I still believe that Wiggins playing at his current level is a better fit for the Cavs right now than Love is, or ever will be. I don't really see how Wiggins would be "wasting" LeBron's prime years because it's not like he's an incredibly raw player who needs to be coddled.
People forget that Wiggins plays D already at an appreciably higher level than Love. And second, he wouldn't be crying about struggling to fit in or whatever. Overall team chemistry would be better, and that can't be underestimated. Wiggins would've moved mountains if Lebron asked him to. He would've been "one of the guys" and he would've done it with enthusiasm.
But the Love proponents are dug in. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I just don't see him as indispensable given that price tag and what the Cavs already have. Is Love a good player, yes. Is he going to be the difference between the Cavs winning a championship or not? I don't think so, just my opinion.
This post was edited on 3/26/15 at 5:08 pm
Posted on 3/26/15 at 5:12 pm to RedRifle
All I know is that Bron needs to grow up and quit organizing these stupid photos... Worry about WINNING douchbag........
Posted on 3/26/15 at 5:19 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
I agree that Wiggins will take some time to develop into a star player as opposed to a very good player. However, I still believe that Wiggins playing at his current level is a better fit for the Cavs right now than Love is, or ever will be. I don't really see how Wiggins would be "wasting" LeBron's prime years because it's not like he's an incredibly raw player who needs to be coddled.
Wiggins wouldn't being playing at the same level on the Cavs though. ON the TWolves he's their #1 or #2 scoring option and is allowed to do whatever he wants bc they suck arse and he's their future. On the Cavs he would be maybe the #4 scoring option (hard to really estimate with all the trades but Lebron\
Kyrie\Dion or JR would be above him. Maybe even Mozgov). He wouldn't impact their team this much this year.
quote:
People forget that Wiggins plays D already at an appreciably higher level than Love. And second, he wouldn't be crying about struggling to fit in or whatever. Overall team chemistry would be better, and that can't be underestimated. Wiggins would've moved mountains if Lebron asked him to. He would've been "one of the guys" and he would've done it with enthusiasm.
Whole lot of HUGE assumptions here with no facts.
Cavs chemistry is top notch right now. Why does it need to be better?
Also, whats up with Wiggins defense. Everyone says he has all the skills and tools to be an elite defender but I cant find a single stat to backup that he actually IS an elite defender.
What does Wiggins bring to this Cavs squad that would make them better than how they are RIGHT NOW with Kevin Love?
Like seriously. The ONLY thing he does better than Kevin Love (maybe.. we don't really have any proof) is defend. Turns out the Cavs have two elite wing defenders already (Shumpert and LeBron) and another above average defender in Marion.
Kevin Love is a better shooter, rebounder, passer, whatever. I'm not even arguing the future. To say the Cavs would 100% be better RIGHT NOW with Wiggins instead of Kevin Love is just asinine.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 5:31 pm to Dr. Shultz
quote:
People like to critique every instagram photo and twitter post and it's getting pretty ridiculous.
Kevin Love isn't known for being super involved with his teammates and going out all the time. He's a home body. That doesn't mean he doesn't have fun with the guys but he realizes these guys are his teammates and not his best friends and that's fine.
Bill Simmons said it best at the beginning of the year. He talked about how all of the other GMs and NBA execs for other teams will be leaking information all year trying to make the Cavs crumble.
Have the Cavs utilized Love to the best of his potential this season? HELL NO. Does that mean that's how it will be the rest of his career, if he stays there? HELL NO. Hopefully he realizes that. These guys are just now starting to mesh well and play together. Give them another offseason and who knows how crazy their offense could be.
Love may leave, but I think he stays. He can make more money if he does so and he will be competing for championships for the next 4+ years. If he leaves, he will be getting big money but will be going back to a team (Celtics/Lakers) who have shite teams and still need a few more players and a couple years to be legit title contenders. He also would have even more pressure of winning a championship if he went back to those teams to be the #1 scoring option, and I think it's pretty obvious he doesn't like being constantly scrutinized by the media.
Bosh was the same way in Miami. He was the 3rd option and gave up the most, but he won championships and got paid. He wasn't BFFs like LeBron and D Wade were. He was a homebody. Some guys have different personalities. Just because they don't hangout outside of work doesn't mean they dislike each other.
Very Solid Post.
One of the aspects I think that has gone unnoticed at this point is it's not JUST that LeBron and Love are a bad mix, it's that Kyrie Love and LeBron are a bad trio. LeBron and Kyrie have shown to figured out how to be a good duo, but that leaves SCRAPS for Love. LeBron needs to create since Kyrie is more a of an alpha scorer...just like Love. Having two alpha scorers with one of them having half of his game taken away ("I'm not a stretch 4") in order to create more lanes for the dribble drivers (Kyrie,LBJ,JR,etc.) puts the post player who can shoot (not the other way around) into a stationary position.
The GOATS of the game-and LeBron is one of them-get to a point where it's not about stats or touches,etc. It's ab out make others better, which isn't necessarily equal to getting other guys open shots by driving and dishing. It's about letting these guys blossom. LeBron looks to be accomplishing that with Kyrie. That game against the Spurs was the perfect Cavs game (this iteration of them,at least). Kyrie and LeBron went bonkers. Love is the odd man out.
Some of that falls onto to coaching,though. They should have more plays set to get Love involved.
Love still can be the best scorer on a Finals-level team, but the team would have to be constructed carefully around him.
Teams that would be good fits for him-The Clipps in a Blake for Love deal, or even a post Z-Bo Grizz(think of the Hi/Lo and spacing opitions with Marc-Mike-Green-Love). The Suns, Spurs,Hawks(Millsap for Love) and of course a pairing with Russ would also be awesome places for Kevin Love.
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