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re: .
Posted on 3/18/15 at 10:36 am to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 3/18/15 at 10:36 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
quote:
I think Lucas is a good to great "big idea" guy, but he's terrible when it comes to the nuts and bolts of story writing/movie making. He needs people to tell him when his ideas suck, and to steer him onto better avenues.
That's why the prequels suck soooooooo badly.
This
This again.
Nothing but yes men for the prequels. If you enjoyed them then God bless you, but they sucked to high hell.
0
Posted on 3/18/15 at 10:38 am to DelU249
Star Trek and Star Wars both had people other than Gene and George alone working on them from the point of creation. Those people influenced major characters and major plot directions and without that input, both franchises would have been significantly different.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 10:46 am to DelU249
Hate on all you want, George Lucas is a genius.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 10:50 am to DelU249
man... so I just went back to look at GL's filmography and the last movie he "wrote" that I would still want to watch all the way through was Radioland Murders (mostly b/c of the old timey music) and even then it was in development hell for about 20 years, the screenplay was credited to 4 other people, it was directed by Mel Smith, and it ended up being more of an ILM experiment for the practicality of the CG they were developing. 
Posted on 3/18/15 at 10:52 am to Dr RC
Revenge of the Sith was a more than worthy part of the series. Clones and Phantom Menace sucked hard.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 10:59 am to RedPants
Sith was pretty good at times but whiffed on the most important part and that was the end. So much fail and so much wasted potential. Plus the political aspect of everything made much of what happened dull also.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:01 am to Tactical1
I do think he's a genius
he's a gifted business man (he went to film school) I don't mean that as a jab. He is a fricking genius in that regard
he's also a genius when it comes to big picture ideas, but without a collaborative effort and people to strip down his ideas and give them shape, he's nothing. That's also not a knock, but he got rid of his partner and anyone else who challenged him creatively. The Star Wars prequels are pretty much George Lucas unhinged. No one to filter his ideas, challenge him, etc.
Let's look at Lucas Film through 1985
Star Wars
Empire
Return of the Jedi (the weakest in this list but better than anything post "crusades")
Raiders
Temple of Doom
holy shite...how many iconic images (and don't tell me that doesn't matter because film is a visual medium)lines, characters, etc. are in those films? too many to count. I love how they made the mine chase in "temple of doom" it really encapsulates the creativity and magic of ILM at that time.
since then we've had
willow (awesome fantasy movie)
last of the crusades (by far the best one in this list)
phantom menace (really shows his big ideas being great but not stripped down and terrible writing makes it a turd. I loved the whole old world roman look he was going for on naboo)
attack of the clones (maybe the worst movie ever made)
revenge of the sith
red tails
kingdom of the crystal skull
howard the duck
there's two good movies in that list, no great movies, and several terrible movies...one of which is probably the single worst movie ever made.
he's a gifted business man (he went to film school) I don't mean that as a jab. He is a fricking genius in that regard
he's also a genius when it comes to big picture ideas, but without a collaborative effort and people to strip down his ideas and give them shape, he's nothing. That's also not a knock, but he got rid of his partner and anyone else who challenged him creatively. The Star Wars prequels are pretty much George Lucas unhinged. No one to filter his ideas, challenge him, etc.
Let's look at Lucas Film through 1985
Star Wars
Empire
Return of the Jedi (the weakest in this list but better than anything post "crusades")
Raiders
Temple of Doom
holy shite...how many iconic images (and don't tell me that doesn't matter because film is a visual medium)lines, characters, etc. are in those films? too many to count. I love how they made the mine chase in "temple of doom" it really encapsulates the creativity and magic of ILM at that time.
since then we've had
willow (awesome fantasy movie)
last of the crusades (by far the best one in this list)
phantom menace (really shows his big ideas being great but not stripped down and terrible writing makes it a turd. I loved the whole old world roman look he was going for on naboo)
attack of the clones (maybe the worst movie ever made)
revenge of the sith
red tails
kingdom of the crystal skull
howard the duck
there's two good movies in that list, no great movies, and several terrible movies...one of which is probably the single worst movie ever made.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:02 am to RedPants
I think phantom menace is easily the best prequel movie. That's not saying much though
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:05 am to DelU249
I would agree with you. If not for the complete mess up of the birth of Darth Vader, it would have been Sith, but in retrospect, TPM is the best of the 3. And that is sad.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:07 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:yeah, he provided the original spark and a team of people (lucas included) took it from there. Gary Kurtz is the co-creator of star wars, period. It wouldn't be recognizeable without him. he wouldn't have finished the first movie without him, and even if he did, it would've been a failure IMO
As far as Star Wars, he did create it, it was his idea. As you note Kurtz had some significant input with out which it would be total different and maybe lousy, I'm mean the prequels were pretty bad with him unfiltered and the best movie of the 6 was Empire, where he Kurtz aand Kershner had a lot of creative control, but it was still Lucus' brain child.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:08 am to statman34
quote:
TPM is the best of the 3.
You guys are smoking drugs. That movie is unwatchable until the Darth Maul fight scene. If he doesn't scream nooooooo!, the birth of Vader would have been fine with me.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:11 am to RedPants
to each their own, but there is a lot more horribly wrong about "sith" than just "nooooooooooo"
technical failings, plot inconsistencies, flat dialogue, horrible blocking, horrible lighting...it's a turd through and through (as they all are, but sith moreso than PM)
clones and sith steal more from the original trilogy than PM, and the "epic" lightsaber duel between Kenobi and vader (which every kid had imagined a million times in their head with wonder and excitement) was fricking boring.
the only thing cool about the movie is him knighting darth vader, but then he says something obviously not true and Anakin just goes "I agree"
that's the big problems with these movies is that vader is the story. these movies kind of ruin our perception of him via obi wan's fond reflections in the orginal movie. They also ruin everything that made "the force" so fricking cool.
technical failings, plot inconsistencies, flat dialogue, horrible blocking, horrible lighting...it's a turd through and through (as they all are, but sith moreso than PM)
clones and sith steal more from the original trilogy than PM, and the "epic" lightsaber duel between Kenobi and vader (which every kid had imagined a million times in their head with wonder and excitement) was fricking boring.
the only thing cool about the movie is him knighting darth vader, but then he says something obviously not true and Anakin just goes "I agree"
that's the big problems with these movies is that vader is the story. these movies kind of ruin our perception of him via obi wan's fond reflections in the orginal movie. They also ruin everything that made "the force" so fricking cool.
This post was edited on 3/18/15 at 11:16 am
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:12 am to DelU249
quote:
I think phantom menace is easily the best prequel movie. That's not saying much though
IDK about this. I do think it gets a disproportionate amount of hate, relative to the other prequels (though AotC rightfully seems to be considered the worst).
I think RotS is a tiny bit better, but it is very overrated IMO. Certainly not better than RotJ like I've seen people rank it.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:13 am to DelU249
quote:
horrible lighting.
Lucas could have avoided this by not making 90% of his set pieces green screen.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:20 am to DelU249
quote:
I have a lot of respect for Lucas
You said it, you can't take it back.
But yeah, without a check on him the guy is pretty terrible. I read an article recently about what he wanted Last Crusade to be about and I just sat there in awe that he actually thought these ideas were interesting or even coherent.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:21 am to RedPants
that would've cured a lot of problems, but the blocking, camera work, dialogue would still just suck. Again, the problem is that vader is the center of the story instead of part of the story
They wrote vader as kind of a bad guy from the start. I guess in my imagination (which is admittedly limited) Anakin would've been a grown person from the first movie, a good guy like luke or han and then betray everyone in the climax of the second movie and reveal his turn to the dark side. It would be fitting since luke is tempted in empire, but overcomes. Then the third movie, he'd be a full on bad guy (darth vader) for the whole shebang.
with the way phantom menace was conceived the opening scene should have been jedi, trade disputes, whatever...then we should spend a huge portion of the movie with Anakin (like luke in Star Wars) then all of a sudden he's thrust into the middle of this huge drama involving jedi, etc. of course being 8 wouldn't be good, but they could've made him a teenager. Because the way these movies are made, there isn't a fricking clear protagonist and antagonist with clear motives...that's really what makes empire the strongest movie of the OT.
They wrote vader as kind of a bad guy from the start. I guess in my imagination (which is admittedly limited) Anakin would've been a grown person from the first movie, a good guy like luke or han and then betray everyone in the climax of the second movie and reveal his turn to the dark side. It would be fitting since luke is tempted in empire, but overcomes. Then the third movie, he'd be a full on bad guy (darth vader) for the whole shebang.
with the way phantom menace was conceived the opening scene should have been jedi, trade disputes, whatever...then we should spend a huge portion of the movie with Anakin (like luke in Star Wars) then all of a sudden he's thrust into the middle of this huge drama involving jedi, etc. of course being 8 wouldn't be good, but they could've made him a teenager. Because the way these movies are made, there isn't a fricking clear protagonist and antagonist with clear motives...that's really what makes empire the strongest movie of the OT.
This post was edited on 3/18/15 at 11:27 am
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:28 am to DelU249
quote:
to each their own, but there is a lot more horribly wrong about "sith" than just "nooooooooooo"
The whole end is rushed. Every piece just falls into place. It is horribly rushed and horribly sequenced. The "NOOOOOOO" is just icing on the cake. It's hard to explain, but the way everything happens is so lackluster and mundane that all wonder and awe at what might have been is completely absent.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:35 am to DelU249
quote:
They wrote vader as kind of a bad guy from the start. I guess in my imagination (which is admittedly limited) Anakin would've been a grown person from the first movie, a good guy like luke or han and then betray everyone in the climax of the second movie and reveal his turn to the dark side. It would be fitting since luke is tempted in empire, but overcomes. Then the third movie, he'd be a full on bad guy (darth vader) for the whole shebang.
with the way phantom menace was conceived the opening scene should have been jedi, trade disputes, whatever...then we should spend a huge portion of the movie with Anakin (like luke in Star Wars) then all of a sudden he's thrust into the middle of this huge drama involving jedi, etc. of course being 8 wouldn't be good, but they could've made him a teenager. Because the way these movies are made, there isn't a fricking clear protagonist and antagonist with clear motives...that's really what makes empire the strongest movie of the OT.
Yea, making him a kid in Phantom was a huge mistake. I get why he did it but it really hurt the narrative. He should have been the exact same age as Luke and started training with Obi Wan from the get go. It would gone so much better with his later more successful training of Luke.
We also should have gotten some scenes that really showed why they were the good friends Obi claims they were when he talks about him to Luke. Instead, we get a whiny brat that pretty much never listens to Obi.
Also, I completely agree that there is no clear protagonist in the films. This is especially true of Phantom. Like who the hell is it even about? Obi-wan and Qui-gon? Amadala? The little slave boy Anakin? Jar Jar? frick me its incredible just how well RedLetterMedia nails how ridiculous the meandering plot is.
This post was edited on 3/18/15 at 11:38 am
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:36 am to TigerNutwhack
exactly.
Lucas needs a strong personality to keep him grounded with his ideas.
Part of the reason the prequels sucked is that no one challenged him creatively.
Lucas needs a strong personality to keep him grounded with his ideas.
Part of the reason the prequels sucked is that no one challenged him creatively.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 11:36 am to statman34
quote:
The whole end is rushed. Every piece just falls into place. It is horribly rushed and horribly sequenced. The "NOOOOOOO" is just icing on the cake. It's hard to explain, but the way everything happens is so lackluster and mundane that all wonder and awe at what might have been is completely absent.
It would have been sooooo much better had it been Anakin that straight up killed his boo instead of her dying of a broken heart during childbirth.
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