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Message
re: White people feeling the pangs of change
Posted on 12/21/14 at 11:45 pm to baybeefeetz
Posted on 12/21/14 at 11:45 pm to baybeefeetz
Your mom.
You realize Garner isn't the only person killed by NYPD this year in a police restraint, right?
How many can they kill before it becomes reasonable to understand the risk?
You realize Garner isn't the only person killed by NYPD this year in a police restraint, right?
How many can they kill before it becomes reasonable to understand the risk?
1
Posted on 12/21/14 at 11:54 pm to the808bass
You're both arguing the policy. While interesting, it is academic. The protestors believe the entire enterprise (police policy, legal proceedings, etc) is just a facade to allow one group to kill another without consequence. Right, wrong, or indifferent that's how they see it.
Posted on 12/21/14 at 11:55 pm to the808bass
it really all depends on what exactly was going on at the time and what exactly the cop did to restrain.
Neck compression (if not crushing) for one second will never be fatal. Two? Three? Ten? Whether it poses a substantial fatal risk t all depends on where the pressure is, for how long. In this case the goddamn video shows exactly what happened. It's not fricking technical.
Neck compression (if not crushing) for one second will never be fatal. Two? Three? Ten? Whether it poses a substantial fatal risk t all depends on where the pressure is, for how long. In this case the goddamn video shows exactly what happened. It's not fricking technical.
Posted on 12/21/14 at 11:56 pm to JRT25
quote:
Right, wrong, or indifferent that's how they see it.
I would disagree with them. I do see their frustration as warranted when it comes to the system equally applying the law to police officers and to citizens.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:00 am to baybeefeetz
quote:
Neck compression
The chest compression continued.
And you seem to be implying that the medical examiner's report is flawed while the grand jury decision is inarguable. It's an interesting tack.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:03 am to the808bass
No, you just don't get it. The medical examiner found himicide. That's irrefutable as far as i am concerned here. I am talking about whether the risk that created the death was substantial based on the actual action the cop took. You are beinf stubborn about the grand jury being WRONG. Bottom line is i am being stubborn about there being at least one way the GJ was RIGHT.
Eta: the video shows the guy breathing after the chest compression ended. Ask the dumbass EMS.
Eta: the video shows the guy breathing after the chest compression ended. Ask the dumbass EMS.
This post was edited on 12/22/14 at 12:05 am
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:07 am to baybeefeetz
Michael Brown asked for what he got. Darren Wilson defended himself and that was that. But if I were a Garner family member I would want that chokehold cop's head on a pike.
All they had to do is ask him to move on and the whole thing is defused.
All they had to do is ask him to move on and the whole thing is defused.
This post was edited on 12/22/14 at 12:09 am
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:12 am to antibarner
Lawful arrest.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:13 am to the808bass
Any event/incident/issue generally has enough uncertainty as to allow different individuals to grab on to their own facts and shut out others that would counter their perceived narrative. Also known as confirmation bias.
The Brown shooting is a good example, but this facet of human behavior can also apply to watching LSU.
My point is it's cultural. One American culture views this as an isolated incident where an individual/small group either behaved maliciously or negligently or accidentally. Another American culture views this as emblematic of one group suppressing another one.
The Brown shooting is a good example, but this facet of human behavior can also apply to watching LSU.
My point is it's cultural. One American culture views this as an isolated incident where an individual/small group either behaved maliciously or negligently or accidentally. Another American culture views this as emblematic of one group suppressing another one.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:16 am to antibarner
quote:
All they had to do is ask him to move on and the whole thing is defused.
1. Approach suspect and advise him of complaint.
2. Write suspect a ticket for the misdemeanor infraction.
3. Advise suspect that if he remains or returns after being forbidden, he may be arrested.
Everybody wins.
I still think it was overpolicing, but race wasn't a factor (certainly not an overriding one) - the fact that he got a little handslappy with them and was 400 pounds, looking robust and dangerous, while being quite fragile in the grand scheme of things was the combination that got him killed.
He shouldn't have resisted - but, it is a shame and so avoidable. Cops need better training in discretion for issues like this, as well as conflict de-escalation and resolution skills.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:19 am to baybeefeetz
quote:
You are beinf stubborn about the grand jury being WRONG.
No. In my opinion, the prosecutor could have easily indicted the officer. He chose not to indict him. It bothers me that the way the prosecutor presents a case is biased towards the outcome they wish to reach.
And you're still arguing with the ME finding while saying you aren't.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:20 am to JRT25
quote:
One American culture views this as an isolated incident where an individual/small group either behaved maliciously or negligently or accidentally. Another American culture views this as emblematic of one group suppressing another one.
Said differently, one group prejudges the situation. Right?
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:21 am to the808bass
How am I? Risk and result are two different things. If the prosecutor sees the negligence issue as I do, he should not have indicted. Plain and simple. This whole thing was on video. There is no dispute of fact.
This post was edited on 12/22/14 at 12:23 am
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:22 am to JRT25
quote:
My point is it's cultural. One American culture views this as an isolated incident where an individual/small group either behaved maliciously or negligently or accidentally. Another American culture views this as emblematic of one group suppressing another one.
The problem for the police is that those two categories aren't really determined by culture anymore. I'm as far from the cultural demographic in the second category you list as a person can be. But I'm troubled by modes of policing in our current society. And I see this incident as part of a larger trend that isn't based upon race, but is based on the state versus the civilian. It isn't going to end well without significant changes being effected.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:23 am to baybeefeetz
Both groups largely prejudge. There is almost no situation in which you would find a cop culpable.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:24 am to baybeefeetz
quote:
How am I? Risk and result are two different things. If the prosecutor sees the negligence issue as I do, he should not have indicted. Plain and simple. This whole thing was on video. There is no dispute of fact.
You are implying he didn't die from the chest or neck compression. If you're not implying that, you're just speaking nonsense.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:28 am to baybeefeetz
Both groups are engaged in confirmation bias.
1). It's probably true that a 400 lb black man got rougher treatment than a 100 lb Asian woman would have received in the same situation.
2). It's also probably true that the last thing these officers wanted to do was kill him.
But this is speculative. We can't really know from a short video.
1). It's probably true that a 400 lb black man got rougher treatment than a 100 lb Asian woman would have received in the same situation.
2). It's also probably true that the last thing these officers wanted to do was kill him.
But this is speculative. We can't really know from a short video.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:31 am to the808bass
Then you are just not following me, because I am being very clear here, as I have in the past on this topic. if I am on that grand jury and I see that video, even after I am told that nypd bans chokeholds, I don't find probable cause for negligence. Common sense tells you that yhe chance of death arising from that physical contact is very low. We as modern Americans have seen that kind of contact many, many times, not resulting in death. Negligence is about common sense.
There are chokeholds that clearly pose a greater risk. Here, the very low percentage chance of death panned out. That's all.
There are chokeholds that clearly pose a greater risk. Here, the very low percentage chance of death panned out. That's all.
This post was edited on 12/22/14 at 12:34 am
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:32 am to the808bass
Haha, and with that fricking stupidity, I am going to sleep.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:36 am to the808bass
quote:
And I see this incident as part of a larger trend that isn't based upon race, but is based on the state versus the civilian.
I'd argue you this shows you view the incident from a lens of enunciated rights (the collective vs the individual). Whereas the majority of those protesting view it as a fight between in-groups.
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