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re: Religious fanaticism, Islam and the IRA
Posted on 12/19/14 at 9:49 am to Erin Go Bragh
Posted on 12/19/14 at 9:49 am to Erin Go Bragh
quote:
but they are just as convinced that what's taking place in the north amounts to little more than an occupation by a foreign army.
Well of course the people in N Ireland will be more extreme. But when half the population sees themselves as British/Irish in the six counties its just a mess.
Its also sad that the neighborhoods of Catholic and Protestant have to be separated by fences looking like a war zone. And the police still get fricked with even though they are not the British Army.
This post was edited on 12/19/14 at 9:50 am
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Posted on 12/19/14 at 9:55 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
I mean the IRA was bombing pubs in England. If thats not targeting the civilian populace I don't know what is.
Usually with a specific intent. I'm not condoning any violence by the IRA, but it's not the same as rocketing school buses.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 9:56 am to trackfan
quote:
Quit burying your head in the sand. All of them targeted civilians.
My head is most definitely not in the sand. Also, civilians and innocents aren't necessarily the same thing.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 9:56 am to lsugradman
quote:
but this argument was a load of crap and just another in a long line of Weak stances on Islamic extremists.
If they believe the conflict in Ireland had it genesis in religion then I agree with you, its a load of crap. A united Ireland, a Catholic and Protestant Ireland, but one that is truly united, is their goal.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 9:57 am to Erin Go Bragh
quote:
If they believe the conflict in Ireland had it genesis in religion then I agree with you
The religious undertone will always be there as it dates back 100's of years
quote:
A united Ireland, a Catholic and Protestant Ireland, but one that is truly united, is their goal.
Here in England you never hear about Catholics getting fricked with anymore and in Ireland nothing about Protestants being harassed.
But in Glasgow and Belfast people won't get with the times.
This post was edited on 12/19/14 at 10:00 am
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:04 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Usually with a specific intent.
All terrorists have a purpose for their killing, they're not doing it for sport.
quote:
I'm not condoning any violence by the IRA, but it's not the same as rocketing school buses.
I so no difference between killing civilians in a pub and killing civilians on a bus. Dead is dead.
This post was edited on 12/19/14 at 10:09 am
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:07 am to Erin Go Bragh
quote:
If they believe the conflict in Ireland had it genesis in religion then I agree with you, its a load of crap
It's not a load of crap, it's a fact that the roots of the conflict are the UK's opposition to the Vatican going back centuries. Would the IRA have ever existed is all Irish were Protestants? No.
This post was edited on 12/19/14 at 10:09 am
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:07 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
The religious undertone will always be there
Agree that will likely always be the case given its generally the dividing line and how each side is readily identified.
My impression is that the violence has been replaced with political activism. Will never claim to be a Gerry Adams fan but he's helped keep the peace.
This post was edited on 12/19/14 at 10:12 am
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:10 am to lsugradman
quote:
difference with Islam is that a large portion of its followers are either supportive or completely ambivalent when it comes to violence against civilians in the name of their religion.
I've got some Muslim friends from a relatively peaceful Middle Eastern nation, and I can attest to this. I get along with them well, but I have been surprised at some of their views towards violence. Such as more than a few of them think that homosexuals should die. One of them told me that if his son was gay, he would give him 1 chance to straighten up. He said if his son refused, he would take him out into the desert and shoot him.
The only violence that even seems to bother them is that of the Jews' hands in Gaza and when they talk about the US's involvement in the ME. They say that the US decimates entire towns full of women and children and that we just don't ever hear about it because we're constantly coddled by the media.
This post was edited on 12/19/14 at 10:29 am
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:10 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Similar to what went on after the collapse of Yugoslavia. Virtually all the Albanians (and Bosniaks) are Muslim. Virtually all the Serbs are Orthodox. Virtually all the Croats are Catholic. It is easy to see the religious lines (and they target each other's religious institutions) - but the Albanian Christian sites weren't touched, by the predominantly muslim Albanian forces. And the Catholic Croats and Muslim Bosniaks teamed up againt the Orthodox Serbs because they hated Serbs more than they hated each other - despite the Croats and Serbs being, ostensibly, Christian.
Isn't diversity wonderful?
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:11 am to trackfan
quote:
it's a fact that the roots of the conflict are the UK's opposition to the Vatican
This started 400 years before Henry was born. It began back in the 12th century when England invaded Ireland. The religious divide became evident in the 16th century but the conflict was centuries old by then.Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:12 am to trackfan
quote:
U so no difference between killing civilians in a pub and killing civilians on a bus. Dead is dead.
Yes, I think there is a difference in bombing a pub frequented by soldiers and in knowingly slaughtering children.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:13 am to constant cough
quote:
Isn't diversity wonderful?
What he is talking about is more along the lines of tribalism and ethnic cleansing.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:14 am to Erin Go Bragh
quote:
This started 400 years before Henry was born. It began back in the 12th century when England invaded Ireland. The religious divide became evident in the 16th century but the conflict was centuries old by then.
It sounds like you're agreeing with me that the roots of the conflict are religiously based. We can quibble about how far it goes back, but without religion, this particular conflict wouldn't have happened.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:15 am to trackfan
quote:
It sounds like you're agreeing with me that the roots of the conflict are religiously based.
Good lord man. How many Church of England members do you believe were in Ireland in the 12th century? Think hard.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:22 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Yes, I think there is a difference in bombing a pub frequented by soldiers and in knowingly slaughtering children.
Pubs are civilian targets, regardless of who happens to be in them. If you want to kill soldiers, you should target military bases, which is what Nidal Hasan did, lest you think it was okay for Al Qaeda to bring down the WTC because there were some federal agencies housed there.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:25 am to Erin Go Bragh
quote:
Good lord man. How many Church of England members do you believe were in Ireland in the 12th century? Think hard.
You're quibbling. There's no getting around Popery Act.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:26 am to Erin Go Bragh
quote:
How many Church of England members do you believe were in Ireland in the 12th century?
And that ends that argument in its tracks. Henry had not been born. Martin Luther had not been born. The people in Ireland who accepted English rule were just as Catholic as those who didn't. It was four centuries later that the relgious divide became evident.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:28 am to trackfan
quote:
There's no getting around Popery Act.
Yea, the popery act, hundreds of years after the fighting began is the cause of the fighting.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:30 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
What he is talking about is more along the lines of tribalism and ethnic cleansing.
Right. Areas that have high concentrations of diversity are also areas have have high levels of ethnic and religious strife.
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