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AD's Year 3 Pels vs KD, CP3 and LBJ
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:43 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:43 am
Broski sent me down an advanced stats rabbit hole last night comparing AD to year 3 of other recent Super Stars who made the playoffs in year 3 and a few things are obvious.
1) Close shouldn't count for Monty and Demps. I think most of us already feel this way, but if a Benson or Loomis intern sees this, someone as good as AD should give you enough of a head start to guarantee a playoff spot. It's playoffs or bust if they want to keep their jobs.
2) Tyreke needs to get his shite together if this team is going to make the playoffs. Trading him for productive bench players might also work out.
While AD is a good enough foundation to guarantee a playoff spot, it's still a team game. None of these other stars did it by themselves. To see how much help they had I focused on Win Shares which is an advanced stat that tries to calculate how many wins a player contributed to their team. The top 10 in Win Shares per 48 minutes last year:
KD
CP3
LeBron
Kevin Love
Steph Curry
Harden
AD
Blake Griffin
Dirk
Kyle Lowry
Judging by the results the stat seems pretty reasonable. I listed everyone that contributed at least 1 win share.
05-06 LeBron Cavs. LeBron, Z, Gooden and enough meh to add up to 50 wins
LeBron James 16.3
Zydrunas Ilgauskas 8.7
Drew Gooden 6.6
Donyell Marshall 4.2
Damon Jones 3.4
Anderson Varejao 2.3
Eric Snow 2.1
Larry Hughes 1.8
Ronald Murray 1.3
Alan Henderson 1.3
07-08 CP3 Hornets 4 studs that grabbed the #2 seed
Chris Paul 17.8
Tyson Chandler 10
David West 8.4
Peja Stojakovic 8.1
Morris Peterson 3.8
Bobby Jackson 1.9
Julian Wright 1.7
Ryan Bown 1.5
Rasual Butler 1.2
Jannero Pargo 1.1
09-10 KD Thunder KD, Green, Westbrook, and solid role players
Kevin Durant 16.1
Jeff Green 6.6
Russell Westbrook 6.1
Nick Collison 4.7
James Harden 4.5
Nenad Krstic 4.2
Thabo Sefolosha 4
Serge Ibaka 3.7
Eric Maynor 1.5
13-14 AD Pelicans AD, Jrue, Asik, Ryno, and a bad bench. Right now they look like they're 1 good starter or several good bench players short of the playoffs.
Anthony Davis 18.5
Jrue Holiday 8.0
Omer Asik 6.0
Ryan Anderson 4.7
Alexis Ajinca 2.9
Austin Rivers 1.4
Tyreke Evans 1.3
Luke Babbit 1.2
Jeff Withey 1.05
Eric Gordon 0.6
For the Pelicans I made projections assuming no further injuries (ie 82 games for AD, 78 for Asik). That obviously won't happen but seemed like the most reasonable projection to make. I did assume 60 games for Gordon and prorated Ajinca to 58 and Withey to 41 based on what they've played so far since they'll probably still get quite a few DNPs. I think Cunningham will make this list in the end, he just hasn't produced enough to register.
We already knew our bench wasn't very good, but I had no idea Tyreke was playing this poorly. If you could trade him for a Jarrett Jack type who had 5.6 WS coming off the bench in Golden State, that alone might be enough to put the team over the top.
1) Close shouldn't count for Monty and Demps. I think most of us already feel this way, but if a Benson or Loomis intern sees this, someone as good as AD should give you enough of a head start to guarantee a playoff spot. It's playoffs or bust if they want to keep their jobs.
2) Tyreke needs to get his shite together if this team is going to make the playoffs. Trading him for productive bench players might also work out.
While AD is a good enough foundation to guarantee a playoff spot, it's still a team game. None of these other stars did it by themselves. To see how much help they had I focused on Win Shares which is an advanced stat that tries to calculate how many wins a player contributed to their team. The top 10 in Win Shares per 48 minutes last year:
KD
CP3
LeBron
Kevin Love
Steph Curry
Harden
AD
Blake Griffin
Dirk
Kyle Lowry
Judging by the results the stat seems pretty reasonable. I listed everyone that contributed at least 1 win share.
05-06 LeBron Cavs. LeBron, Z, Gooden and enough meh to add up to 50 wins
LeBron James 16.3
Zydrunas Ilgauskas 8.7
Drew Gooden 6.6
Donyell Marshall 4.2
Damon Jones 3.4
Anderson Varejao 2.3
Eric Snow 2.1
Larry Hughes 1.8
Ronald Murray 1.3
Alan Henderson 1.3
07-08 CP3 Hornets 4 studs that grabbed the #2 seed
Chris Paul 17.8
Tyson Chandler 10
David West 8.4
Peja Stojakovic 8.1
Morris Peterson 3.8
Bobby Jackson 1.9
Julian Wright 1.7
Ryan Bown 1.5
Rasual Butler 1.2
Jannero Pargo 1.1
09-10 KD Thunder KD, Green, Westbrook, and solid role players
Kevin Durant 16.1
Jeff Green 6.6
Russell Westbrook 6.1
Nick Collison 4.7
James Harden 4.5
Nenad Krstic 4.2
Thabo Sefolosha 4
Serge Ibaka 3.7
Eric Maynor 1.5
13-14 AD Pelicans AD, Jrue, Asik, Ryno, and a bad bench. Right now they look like they're 1 good starter or several good bench players short of the playoffs.
Anthony Davis 18.5
Jrue Holiday 8.0
Omer Asik 6.0
Ryan Anderson 4.7
Alexis Ajinca 2.9
Austin Rivers 1.4
Tyreke Evans 1.3
Luke Babbit 1.2
Jeff Withey 1.05
Eric Gordon 0.6
For the Pelicans I made projections assuming no further injuries (ie 82 games for AD, 78 for Asik). That obviously won't happen but seemed like the most reasonable projection to make. I did assume 60 games for Gordon and prorated Ajinca to 58 and Withey to 41 based on what they've played so far since they'll probably still get quite a few DNPs. I think Cunningham will make this list in the end, he just hasn't produced enough to register.
We already knew our bench wasn't very good, but I had no idea Tyreke was playing this poorly. If you could trade him for a Jarrett Jack type who had 5.6 WS coming off the bench in Golden State, that alone might be enough to put the team over the top.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 10:49 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:48 am to TigerinATL
i want to also point out, as i did in another thread, that OKC started off that season 12-12 before eventually winning 50 games. looks like they had 1 guy (KD) that was above and beyond, 2 guys around 6-7 win shares, which this Pelicans team has. then OKC had 5 guys in the 3.5-5 range. looks like we have two potentially.
i think if cunningham can continue to play well, he can be one of those 4 win share guys. if EG comes back, he can be as well. need a fifth, though. Rivers playing better since Mekel arrived.
eta: great post as always, btw
i think if cunningham can continue to play well, he can be one of those 4 win share guys. if EG comes back, he can be as well. need a fifth, though. Rivers playing better since Mekel arrived.
eta: great post as always, btw
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 10:49 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:51 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I had no idea Tyreke was playing this poorly. If you could trade him for a Jarrett Jack type who had 5.6 WS coming off the bench in Golden State, that alone might be enough to put the team over the top.
Wasn't that long ago I was getting abused around here for saying it. It's just so frustrating to watch him because he seems to have elite physical tools. I think people look at his basic stat line (points, assists, rebounds) and think he's having great games, but the game itself tells you otherwise.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:55 am to Galactic Inquisitor
if he could make 55% of his layups he'd average 20ppg
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:57 am to saintsfan92612
quote:
if he could make 55% of his layups he'd average 20ppg
To make 55%, he'll have to stop taking as many bad layup attempts, so that 20PPG is fools' gold.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:58 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Wasn't that long ago I was getting abused around here for saying it.
Not the first time you've been the canary in the coal mine. Part of it is the basic stats you mentioned and the other part is us thinking he can't stay this bad all year. But what if he does? At least Ryno has found other ways to be useful when the one thing he's really good at isn't working.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:01 am to Galactic Inquisitor
I've been saying Rivers should be starting at the 2 alongside Holiday, and Tyreke should come off the bench. 1) It's a slight defensive improvement. 2) You eliminate the Jrue/Evans ball handling timeshare.
If Reke wants to play defense and earn his starting job back, go out and show us. Austin freaking Rivers and his <10 PER are projected at more win shares than Reke? Laughable.
Rivers also has a lower TO% and a higher AST %.
If Reke wants to play defense and earn his starting job back, go out and show us. Austin freaking Rivers and his <10 PER are projected at more win shares than Reke? Laughable.
Rivers also has a lower TO% and a higher AST %.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:03 am to TigerinATL
quote:
the other part is us thinking he can't stay this bad all year
I don't think he will stay this bad, but that's almost beside the point. I just don't think his ISO-heavy style of play is conducive to winning basketball consistently.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:05 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
Austin freaking Rivers and his <10 PER are projected at more win shares than Reke? Laughable
PER is a crappy stat. It is overly affected by usage rate.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:09 am to Galactic Inquisitor
Which is why I added a couple more and wrote a spiel on defense considering PER doesn't take that into account. Tyreke doesn't play any. Worse, he doesn't appear to even be trying. That's the part that pisses me off. He was at least aggressive early in the year and disrupting passing lanes.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:16 am to TigerinATL
Our bench compared to 09-10 Thunder smh
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:36 am to TigerinATL
That took time and effort. Much appreciated.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 1:03 pm to TigerinATL
We need a competent 2 that can shoot/hit 3s and leave Reke on the bench to run the 2nd unit.
It just makes no sense that we have so many combo guards on this team, but we can't stagger them correctly.
It just makes no sense that we have so many combo guards on this team, but we can't stagger them correctly.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 1:54 pm to htran90
quote:
It just makes no sense that we have so many combo guards on this team, but we can't stagger them correctly.
Assuming the rumors about the FO forcing Monty's hand and making him start Evans are true, that's your answer. The problem is that Evans seemed to go into full on "frick this, I'mma get mine" mode when he was asked to come off the bench. However, that seems to be the same mode he's in this year, so what can it hurt?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:23 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Broski sent me down an advanced stats rabbit hole last night
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