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re: How much money will Ingram ask for?
Posted on 10/31/14 at 4:35 pm to LSUFreek
Posted on 10/31/14 at 4:35 pm to LSUFreek
Carolina also limited Marshawn Lynch last week to 14 carries, 62 yards (4.4ypc) so their "ranking" isn't the whole story. This was the 2nd best run defense in the league last year allowing 3.95ypc. YPG alone isn't the best indicator of how good a defense is against the run. If I run it 10 times and net 60 yards, I only hit them for 60ypg, but the 6.0ypc tells the story that you're extremely porous. This is entirely true for a team that goes RBBC, no single RB will have explosive numbers, but if you add it up it will. The first 2 games were RBBC, correct? So you can't expect Ingram to have 100+ yards on 10-15 carries.
This year:
Atlanta: 24th ranked run defense: 128.0ypg; 3.98 ypc
So his 4.6ypc was better than they allowed on average.
Cleveland: 30th ranked run defense: 143.4ypg; 4.83ypc
So his 7.5ypc was better than they allowed on average.
Detroit: 2nd ranked run defense: 74.0ypg; 3.25ypc
So he shite the bed on this one. They bottled him up, but if you go back and look at the PFF scores and the game, the run blocking was atrocious. Cumulative score on run blocking for the OL: -1.9. This was a bad game for everyone involved, I've rewatched this game because I was bored and the yards for loss/stuffed at the line were all behind tackles that couldn't make a block at all. This was the whole arizona game from 2013 all over again.
Green Bay: 32nd ranked run defense: 153.4ypg; 4.77ypc
So his first game as the lead back playing 75+% of the snaps, his 7.2ypc was higher than they allowed on average and he did more ypg than they allowed on average.
Carolina: 27th ranked run defense: 131.9ypg; 4.84ypc
This is an interesting one. He had 30 carries, 3.33ypc and 100 yards which is a nice 100 yard game, but the ypc is lacking. Short week, but your starting RT got knocked out of the game, yur Fullback had a score of -1.1 on 13 run blocks, and both of your guards scored negative PFF scores. I believe roughly 8 of his runs were within the carolina 10 yard line and he gained 0-3 most of the runs which negatively skews his YPC. That isn't an excuse, but red zone running plays typically net lower YPC.
So really, as the lead back he's had one great game and one decent game.
As RBBC, he had 2 above average games and 1 bad game.
So...I'm not one to sunshine pump, but I'm seeing a trend here. He isn't terrible, but half of you can't shake off the first 2.5 years of Ingram.
Oh, I forgot to add this:
@ Carolina
Ingram: 51/77 snaps (66.2%)
30 Runs (58.8%)
14 Passes (27.5%)
2 Run Blocks
5 Pass Blocks
Cadet: 22/77 snaps (28.6%)
2 Runs (9.1%)
19 Passes (86.4%)
1 Pass Blocks
Vs. Green Bay
Ingram: 55/69 snaps (79.7%)
25 Runs (45.5%)
20 Passes (36.4%)
6 Run Blocks
4 Pass Blocks
Cadet: 14/69 snaps (20.3%)
1 Run (7.1%)
13 Passes (92.9%)
That means we weren't as balanced in using him to keep defenses honest, but he still produced relatively well. Keep ing
This year:
Atlanta: 24th ranked run defense: 128.0ypg; 3.98 ypc
So his 4.6ypc was better than they allowed on average.
Cleveland: 30th ranked run defense: 143.4ypg; 4.83ypc
So his 7.5ypc was better than they allowed on average.
Detroit: 2nd ranked run defense: 74.0ypg; 3.25ypc
So he shite the bed on this one. They bottled him up, but if you go back and look at the PFF scores and the game, the run blocking was atrocious. Cumulative score on run blocking for the OL: -1.9. This was a bad game for everyone involved, I've rewatched this game because I was bored and the yards for loss/stuffed at the line were all behind tackles that couldn't make a block at all. This was the whole arizona game from 2013 all over again.
Green Bay: 32nd ranked run defense: 153.4ypg; 4.77ypc
So his first game as the lead back playing 75+% of the snaps, his 7.2ypc was higher than they allowed on average and he did more ypg than they allowed on average.
Carolina: 27th ranked run defense: 131.9ypg; 4.84ypc
This is an interesting one. He had 30 carries, 3.33ypc and 100 yards which is a nice 100 yard game, but the ypc is lacking. Short week, but your starting RT got knocked out of the game, yur Fullback had a score of -1.1 on 13 run blocks, and both of your guards scored negative PFF scores. I believe roughly 8 of his runs were within the carolina 10 yard line and he gained 0-3 most of the runs which negatively skews his YPC. That isn't an excuse, but red zone running plays typically net lower YPC.
So really, as the lead back he's had one great game and one decent game.
As RBBC, he had 2 above average games and 1 bad game.
So...I'm not one to sunshine pump, but I'm seeing a trend here. He isn't terrible, but half of you can't shake off the first 2.5 years of Ingram.
Oh, I forgot to add this:
@ Carolina
Ingram: 51/77 snaps (66.2%)
30 Runs (58.8%)
14 Passes (27.5%)
2 Run Blocks
5 Pass Blocks
Cadet: 22/77 snaps (28.6%)
2 Runs (9.1%)
19 Passes (86.4%)
1 Pass Blocks
Vs. Green Bay
Ingram: 55/69 snaps (79.7%)
25 Runs (45.5%)
20 Passes (36.4%)
6 Run Blocks
4 Pass Blocks
Cadet: 14/69 snaps (20.3%)
1 Run (7.1%)
13 Passes (92.9%)
That means we weren't as balanced in using him to keep defenses honest, but he still produced relatively well. Keep ing
This post was edited on 10/31/14 at 4:44 pm
Posted on 10/31/14 at 6:53 pm to htran90
As I said earlier, I wouldn't mind having him back but at a reasonable price. I think paying him what he's making now is a fair deal.
Posted on 10/31/14 at 6:59 pm to Earn Your Keep
quote:
Earn Your Keep
quote:
You can GTFO as you're obviously only interested because he's a Gump.
and you obviously hate him because you're a corndog.
Posted on 10/31/14 at 7:08 pm to deuce985
quote:
As I said earlier, I wouldn't mind having him back but at a reasonable price. I think paying him what he's making now is a fair deal.
If he hits his season average the rest of the way, he'll hit 1100 yards and 4.9ypc. I think the market would be closer to 4-5mil and not 2mil. Reggie Bush is making 4mil, Mathews and Spiller are around 5-6mil. All 4 are injury prone, but those 3 have had solid 1000 yard years. If Ingram does that, he's going to get that much as well, the potential is there with low tread. Some team like Oakland who has 2 washed up RBs would throw cash at him.
This post was edited on 10/31/14 at 7:09 pm
Posted on 10/31/14 at 7:11 pm to Tigeralltheway
In this day RBs are a dime a dozen. If he wants too much money chances are you can find a replacement in FA or the 2nd day of the draft. Rinse. Repeat.
Posted on 10/31/14 at 7:25 pm to euquol
Shady, Charles, Peterson, and Foster are the unique cases where there are no other RBs like them.
You could put in Forte as well.
After that, it becomes a wash. Honestly look at what Justin Forsett is doing in Baltimore, Ronnie Hillman in two games, Ben Tate in Cleveland, before that Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West were playing well.
I think 4-5mil is fine, but top 5 money would be absurd.
You could put in Forte as well.
After that, it becomes a wash. Honestly look at what Justin Forsett is doing in Baltimore, Ronnie Hillman in two games, Ben Tate in Cleveland, before that Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West were playing well.
I think 4-5mil is fine, but top 5 money would be absurd.
Posted on 10/31/14 at 7:30 pm to htran90
quote:
Shady, Charles, Peterson, and Foster are the unique cases where there are no other RBs like them.
They are a rare breed. Most other RBs are plug and play - some are better than others obviously but for the most part you can put any RB of Ingram's caliber in the backfield and get good production.
Posted on 10/31/14 at 8:19 pm to euquol
1) he's right in the middle of starting NFL RBs
2) first 3 years in NFL plagued with injuries and coming into camp overweight and out of shape
3) pay him what he's worth in a short contract.. median starter RB pay, if his productivity continues pay the man. If he goes back to being fat and showing up out of shape cut/trade
4) never move up to draft a RB in the 1st unless he's the 2nd coming of Peterson
2) first 3 years in NFL plagued with injuries and coming into camp overweight and out of shape
3) pay him what he's worth in a short contract.. median starter RB pay, if his productivity continues pay the man. If he goes back to being fat and showing up out of shape cut/trade
4) never move up to draft a RB in the 1st unless he's the 2nd coming of Peterson
This post was edited on 10/31/14 at 8:21 pm
Posted on 10/31/14 at 8:23 pm to bmy
I was one of those who thought he was going to be an elite RB and was excited when they moved up to snag him. It's hard to tell with RBs these days.
Posted on 10/31/14 at 8:27 pm to euquol
RBs are an interesting breed these days. Doug Martin was supposedly on the trade block and we know he's capable of a lot.
Alfred Morris started out really well, but he's been declining since. Of course its because of the lack of a consistent QB too, but the way he plays is different from what I've watched in years past.
Ryan Mathews had a few good years, but Oliver has just blown up.
Ronnie Hillman is doing wonderful things in his starting time, but Montee Ball looks like a 2nd round flop.
Alfred Morris started out really well, but he's been declining since. Of course its because of the lack of a consistent QB too, but the way he plays is different from what I've watched in years past.
Ryan Mathews had a few good years, but Oliver has just blown up.
Ronnie Hillman is doing wonderful things in his starting time, but Montee Ball looks like a 2nd round flop.
Posted on 10/31/14 at 8:29 pm to Breesus
quote:
Tulane has sold out its stadium and there is already a season ticket waiting list.
That's great! Tulane should start calling those people immediately as there are 25K empty seats at Yulman tonight.
The game is on ESPN2 and the stadium is 1/3 full at most. (and yes that was before it was 24-0)
Maybe those other 25K decided to go watch high school football instead.
Posted on 10/31/14 at 10:49 pm to Tigeralltheway
Hell no. Running backs like him are a dime a dozen.
Posted on 10/31/14 at 11:03 pm to Earn Your Keep
quote:
Use the money on the O-line...NOT the backfield.
Posted on 11/1/14 at 7:17 am to Tigeralltheway
I have come to really like him but unless he literally carries us to a title I'm OK with letting him walk. He is gonna want big money. We can have a small step down in Robinson for 1/10th of the price.
Posted on 11/1/14 at 7:34 am to bmy
quote:
3) pay him what he's worth in a short contract.. median starter RB pay, if his productivity continues pay the man.
Yeah a 6 year vet mark Ingram would be a smart person to pay big
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