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re: Pope calls for abolition of death penalty
Posted on 10/23/14 at 5:14 pm to Jim Rockford
Posted on 10/23/14 at 5:14 pm to Jim Rockford
If Ancient Rome didn't have the death penalty, the Pope wouldn't have job. He should probably STFU.
This post was edited on 10/23/14 at 5:15 pm
1
Posted on 10/23/14 at 5:49 pm to TexasTiger89
quote:
This is straight from the Catholic Catechism.
quote:
2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor. (2306)
This does not = abolition.
That's why I stated in my earlier post that the pope via tha magisterium change the language of the Catholic catechism.
With that said, in modern civilizations there are many effective ways to protect society from unjust aggressors other than the death penalty. One of those effective ways is life in prison which can be and should be implemented humanely.
This post was edited on 10/23/14 at 7:45 pm
Posted on 10/23/14 at 6:03 pm to Sentrius
Pretty sure the DP is law in over 30 States. Hard time being implemented?
Posted on 10/23/14 at 6:08 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Some crimes require the death penalty.
I have a friend from Cheshire and have been there multiple times. It's a nice place that you would never expect a crime so heinous to occur (obviously reality doesn't conform to expectations).
Regardless if we should have the death penalty as an appropriate punishment, I prefer that relgious leaders are against it. Even if impractical, I think it is good for them to stand for a higher standard of forgiveness than society as a whole to model the ideal.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 7:36 pm to Jim Rockford
The death penalty is good for people whose values are stuck in the year 1400.
It's just porn for people who want to feel like they are part of killing someone.
It's just porn for people who want to feel like they are part of killing someone.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 9:26 pm to Jim Rockford
It's a damn good thing popes don't have any real power anymore.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 9:31 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
not an authoritative statement.
Uh...yeah it is. The Church's stance on the death penalty isn't a discipline, it's dogma.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 9:43 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Uh...yeah it is. The Church's stance on the death penalty isn't a discipline, it's dogma.
Actually doctrine. There is very little dogma in the Church. Lots of doctine and lots of discipline.
The official stance on the death penalty is in the catechism and was posted in this thread. The pope's comments are somewhat confusing because they are a little contradictory from what is stated in the catechism.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 9:48 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Questions?
Yeah, why do you read AIM?
From the article you posted:
quote:
Wrong! There are very important lessons to be learned from the Dirkhising case. One is that the homosexual lifestyle frequently involves practices that are disgusting and dangerous. Josh Brown and Davis Carpenter, the killers of Jesse Dirkhising, were just doing what Carpenter, who is thirty-eight years old, had been doing for years-inflicting physical pain on others for kicks. Sadomasochism is celebrated in homosexual literature and art. There is a tendency to try extreme perversions in search of thrills. One, called “golden showers,” is urinating on a partner. Another, called “fisting,” is using one’s hand to sodomize a partner. In Jesse Dirkhising’s case, his tormentors used cucumbers, a banana, a sausage and a douche bottle. These practices are shown in the celebrated Mapplethorpe photos. During the 1993 Gay Rights March on Washington, an exhibit in the Mellon Auditorium, a federal building, featured whips, chains, bondage devices and electric cattle prods as instruments of sexual pleasure. Homosexuals have argued that consensual rough sex that results in death should not be treated as a crime.
Not all homosexuals engage in all of these practices and not all of them have sex with young boys, but the revelations of wide-spread pedophilia among Catholic priests shows that many do. The North American Man-Boy Love Association wants to make this legal, and efforts are being made to get schools to teach children that homosexuality is normal and nice. The death of Jesse Dirkhising shows that is false. That is why it was ignored.
Good Lord
Posted on 10/23/14 at 9:49 pm to Jim Rockford
I'm for the death penalty, especially for anyone that is convicted of molesting children in any capacity.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 11:32 pm to Sentrius
Modern Catholic church has always opposed the death penalty
Posted on 10/23/14 at 11:50 pm to Jim Rockford
The death penalty is biblically justifiable. I support it
Posted on 10/24/14 at 12:04 am to Wrenchruh
quote:
If Ancient Rome didn't have the death penalty, the Pope wouldn't have job. He should probably STFU.
So the pope should be pro unions?
Posted on 10/24/14 at 6:31 am to TexasTiger89
quote:
This is straight from the Catholic Catechism.
The pope has the authority to change teachings in the cathechism. Only thing he can't change is teaching found in divine revelation. Like Jesus is God, 10 Commandments etc.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 6:57 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
quote:
This is straight from the Catholic Catechism.
The pope has the authority to change teachings in the cathechism. Only thing he can't change is teaching found in divine revelation. Like Jesus is God, 10 Commandments etc.
I know that but how often does the Church change something like this? One thing I recommend to people who hear the media state something about a Pope's comments (Ex. Homosexuals) is just look up that subject in an online Catholic Catechism (that is searchable for your convenience). It will tell you exactly where the Pope is coming from rather than some media type's interpretation that the Church is changing.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 6:59 am to Jim Rockford
This is a subject that I gave deep thought to for months when I worked in Homicide.
I believe my beliefs are pretty consistent with The Church. I don't believe the death penalty is needed in LA because we have a life sentence without benefit of probation/parole. However, I can certainly see how it could be justified in a state that has a sentence of 20 years to life, and parole is always an option. There are people who should never be allowed back into society.
I was glad when Hillar Moore instituted the "Contract for Life". Which is basically a contract defendants sign in order to avoid the death penalty. They plead guilty to 1st degree murder, no appeals and go straight to Angola. I believe it can save the family of the victim a lot of grief by avoiding all of the appeals.
I believe my beliefs are pretty consistent with The Church. I don't believe the death penalty is needed in LA because we have a life sentence without benefit of probation/parole. However, I can certainly see how it could be justified in a state that has a sentence of 20 years to life, and parole is always an option. There are people who should never be allowed back into society.
I was glad when Hillar Moore instituted the "Contract for Life". Which is basically a contract defendants sign in order to avoid the death penalty. They plead guilty to 1st degree murder, no appeals and go straight to Angola. I believe it can save the family of the victim a lot of grief by avoiding all of the appeals.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 7:16 am to goatmilker
quote:
Sounds a lot like most Popes.
Not historically.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 7:17 am to TexasTiger89
quote:
2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor. (2306)
So did God delineate that to someone from a burning bush or a dream? Or was it just written by some guy after a meeting?
This post was edited on 10/24/14 at 7:20 am
Posted on 10/24/14 at 7:19 am to TexasTiger89
quote:
I know that but how often does the Church change something like this? One thing I recommend to people who hear the media state something about a Pope's comments (Ex. Homosexuals) is just look up that subject in an online Catholic Catechism (that is searchable for your convenience). It will tell you exactly where the Pope is coming from rather than some media type's interpretation that the Church is changing.
it depends on the issue.
Since the Catechisms publication in the 1990s there has been a lot of movement in the Church away from the rare allowability of the DP. Francis continues to show how this happens.
Saint Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI, and now Pope Francis have all called for the reduction if not the elimination of the death penalty. If three Popes back to back to back are saying pretty much the same thing, that is a sign there is a change in the way the Church approaches an issue.
A Catholic can hold to the Death Penalty in good conscious he should just realize that there has been a movement by the last three pontiffs against the death penalty.
This post was edited on 10/24/14 at 7:22 am
Posted on 10/24/14 at 7:21 am to Rickety Cricket
quote:
Do did God delineate that to someone from a burning bush or a dream? Or was it just written by some guy after a meeting?
God gave us a church to work out all the issues that would come up in interpreting his word for the last 2000 years.
If there was no unified body of believers who came together and settled disputes we may still have large portions of christians who believe that Jesus is an adopted son of God not really God. (see arian)
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