re: Govt tells Christian ministers: Perform same-sex weddings or face jail, fines

Sure it does. You can pretend that it doesn't because of the stupid internet churches, but it certainly does.

But that's the thing. An internet church, or some guy who sits at home and becomes an "ordained minister" on his computer, shouldn't be treated as a Catholic Priest or someone who attended a seminary and presides over a Protestant congregation.

ETA: If we're going to provide special legal protections for ministers and their churches and congregations, the ordination of those ministers needs to actually mean something.

But there's a whole range in between. There's people who have done online classes, there's people who have done apprenticeships, there's people who are simply devout people who are filling in at a small country church and the church has ordained them. Is it just the internet guy who doesn't count?

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But there's a whole range in between. There's people who have done online classes, there's people who have done apprenticeships, there's people who are simply devout people who are filling in at a small country church and the church has ordained them. Is it just the internet guy who doesn't count?

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I don't know what the solution is. Part of it is just me being tired of seeing an 8 year old in some article or on tv and everyone's celebrating that he's an "ordained minister", like that doesn't devalue the title tremendously.

It'd be a lot simpler if we didn't bother with the ordained minister titles, and just protected the religious institutions. Offer no protection specifically for religious businesses, and just let them do what they want to do. If they want to serve you, cool. If not, don't force them.

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frick that. The freedom of the press doesn't only apply to someone with an official AP badge.

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That's why I'm saying we don't bother caring if they're ordained ministers or not. Just protect every religious group, period.

Let it be the church's protection, not the individuals.

What we're seeing, and some of us already knew this, is that this will never end. This organized movement stopped being solely about gay rights a long time ago. It's now every bit as much about harassing and, hopefully, destroying organized religion....i.e. Christianity.

I laugh everytime I see that anti-bullying PSA on TV, because these days you can't tell who the bullies are. The script has been flipped.

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This isn't a church.

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It is an establishment of religion.

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And I doubt any judge would force a minister to perform a gay wedding... And that's what we said.

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So we've migrated from discussions you and I have had where this would """never""" happen, to the point you """doubt""" a judge would force a minister to perform a religious service against his will.

This comes on the heels of Houston.
Now I've sustained quite a bit of criticism in saying going after churches was always the intended "next-shoe-to-drop". It's the activist goal. It has been the goal. I suspect there are folks here who know that. As late as this week, ballcaster was dismissive of the suggestion.

Yet here we are, and earlier than I expected frankly.

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What we're seeing, and some of us already knew this, is that this will never end. This organized movement stopped being solely about gay rights a long time ago. It's now every bit as much about harassing and, hopefully, destroying organized religion....i.e. Christianity. I laugh everytime I see that anti-bullying PSA on TV, because these days you can't tell who the bullies are. The script has been flipped.

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No one is doing what you claim. A city attorney is not a prosecutor nor is he a policeman. He has no power to force them to have gay weddings plus there isn't anyone asking for a gay wedding. He was asked his opinion and he gave it and it included the phrase "in theory".

If the courts have ruled the govt cannot force hobby lobby to provide contraceptions in the employee health insurance, they certainly won't force a hobby lobby chapel to perform gay weddings.

But continue with your faux outrage. I know it must be frustrating for you considering no one has died in the US from Ebola since Duncan.

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No one is doing what you claim

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Well it will be interesting hearing the inevitable scores of pro-FirstAmendment gays going after the city attorney for his stupidity. < /sarcasm >