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Started By
Message
re: Monty Williams' job
Posted on 10/11/14 at 1:11 am to LosLobos111
Posted on 10/11/14 at 1:11 am to LosLobos111
quote:
How so? You have a superstar,An all star caliber PG,One of the best defensive centers in the NBA,One of the best 3 point shooters in the NBA and a wing that was playing at an all star level in the second half.
So we have a superstar that has never won at this level or been a leader, an offensively inept Center that pitched a fit and quit on his team last season, a mid level PG coming off a pretty serious injury, a nice stretch 4 coming of a life threatening injury, a wing that played great as a PG when all the pressure was off, plus one of the worst collection of bench players in the league once you get past the first 6.
Teams have also been in the lottery with a lot better than that.
quote:
You could say this about how many teams?
Fair enough. You got me there.
quote:
Davis has plenty of help now and he has a better core than some superstars have taken to the playoffs by themselves many a time even if you try to say that
I don't agree. They have done a horrible job surrounding Davis with quality players that fit next to him. That should be the focus. Not is Asik good, but he is a good fit next to Davis? That should go for everybody on the roster. Evans is great, but if he needs a bunch of shooters next to him that we don't have than he doesn't do us much good. This team is missing a lot of "fit" guys. Just solid role players that play hard D and can handle major minutes in a pinch.
I hope I'm wrong and Davis is definitely special. But it's too much pressure on him and it worries me that there doesn't seem to be a plan to help him. They just grab the best player available (no matter the cost) and hope it all works out. Take the Center position. If they thought that they needed a pure Center next to Davis, then why did they give away Lopez (who turned out to be really good last year)? It looks like they f'd up and tried to make up for their mistake. So do they really know what they are doing?
3
Posted on 10/11/14 at 1:21 am to VeezyLife
The first 20 games of this season are going to be huge for the mood of this board and this team. If this team goes 14-6 then we'll give this season the benefit of a doubt. If this team starts 6-14 then people will be calling for his head.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 1:51 am to brmark70816
quote:
So we have a superstar that has never won at this level or been a leader,
It would've been pretty damn hard to win in his first year with the lack of talent around him. He was dominant last year but it was a case of shite luck.
He did pretty damn good in FIBA being a leader and enjoyed it.
quote:
an offensively inept Center that pitched a fit and quit on his team last season
His job is to play his great defense and rebound.
He was unhappy with how the rockets chased howard after starting 82 games and leading them to the playoffs. He also had a leg injury that made the situation even worse.
We've seen how the rockets treat their players.
He's happy now and that's all that matters. He also didn't quit,he played(well) in the playoffs.
quote:
a mid level PG coming off a pretty serious injury,
Who's fine now.
quote:
a nice stretch 4 coming of a life threatening injury
Who's 100%
What's the deal with the injury talk?
quote:
a wing that played great as a PG when all the pressure was off
Did you even read the stats I posted on the last page?
quote:
plus one of the worst collection of bench players in the league once you get past the first 6.
Yeah no
quote:
Teams have also been in the lottery with a lot better than that.
Sure they have
quote:
I don't agree. They have done a horrible job surrounding Davis with quality players that fit next to him. That should be the focus
Monty is a terrible X&Os coach,will you not at least acknowledge he mishandled some situations(giving steam minutes and aminu?)
quote:
Not is Asik good, but he is a good fit next to Davis?
Pretty much everyone agrees he is,why on earth wouldn't he?
quote:
That should go for everybody on the roster. Evans is great, but if he needs a bunch of shooters next to him that we don't have than he doesn't do us much good. This team is missing a lot of "fit" guys. Just solid role players that play hard D and can handle major minutes in a pinch.
The was monty's fault. How can any player play with aminu and steimsma(who both were inept offensively and caused spacing issues?). Why didn't he just play morrow with him and maybe withey? Why play guys that make everyone else's job harder?
If we're not good on defense(monty's specialty) with very good defenders in Holiday/Asik/Davis,who's fault is that?
quote:
I hope I'm wrong and Davis is definitely special. But it's too much pressure on him and it worries me that there doesn't seem to be a plan to help him.
Contrary to what you think he has a lot of (young)talent around him. This isn't like how Kobe was back in 2005/6 or LBJ back in the day and demps is signing posey type players.
quote:
ake the Center position. If they thought that they needed a pure Center next to Davis, then why did they give away Lopez (who turned out to be really good last year)? It looks like they f'd up and tried to make up for their mistake. So do they really know what they are doing?
Asik is a better player in many regards than lopez.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 7:29 am to VeezyLife
The single reason I gave up my season tickets this year. Couldn't do a 5th year of drivjng back to baton rouge just watching the idiot make same mistakes over and over.
Still think marcus Thornton was personal and still does the les miles ill prove to you I know.more and you fans are stupid
Hope he wins though
Still think marcus Thornton was personal and still does the les miles ill prove to you I know.more and you fans are stupid
Hope he wins though
Posted on 10/11/14 at 7:43 am to LosLobos111
quote:
2 of them are better off taking 3s from guys that can create
Of course. But do they know that? All 6 are used to playing on the ball on offense at high levels of basketball. These guys got to the NBA and earned praise/awards/$$$ playing a certain way. They're not just going to stop doing what they know.
We can point to catch and shoot numbers all day, but if they don't want that role (or it isn't emphasized to them by coaching/scheme) it doesn't matter. If we see the same PG creates everything in half court sets offense, it will be tough to unlock all the potential these guys have.
quote:
One or 2 will get random DNPCDs at times so I wouldn't worry about it.
Yep. Which is why it bothers me they didn't do more on the wing. That 6th guard or 6th big is more vital than taking a chance on a better wing?
quote:
You also can't have too many bigs(see having to use steam last year).
Sure. But no one has 6 bigs that can play. Despite the optimism of fans, neither do the Pelicans. TBD how much better, if at all, Ajinca/Withey are than Steamer. Coaches didn't think they were last year. And Young is a rookie big.
And the redundancy is a problem. 4 of them are the same prototype- defense/rebounding. If Davis or Anderson (or God forbid both) go down, we're looking at a repeat of last year's twin towers of offensive ineptitude and space killing. This concerns me much more than the guards.
This all sounds overly negative. Not my intent. I like the top 6 mix. I like their chances this year if they get guys to buy in and stay healthy. But I do think Monty has a tough job with this roster after the top 6.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 7:44 am to brmark70816
quote:
They have done a horrible job surrounding Davis with quality players that fit next to him.
Jesus, I totally disagree.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 7:45 am to brmark70816
quote:
If they thought that they needed a pure Center next to Davis, then why did they give away Lopez (
Reke + Asik > Lopez
Posted on 10/11/14 at 7:53 am to CQQ
Posted on 10/11/14 at 8:44 am to CQQ
quote:
Sheridan posted an article touching on a lot of this
It's reasonable, imo.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 12:00 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Gordon when he opts in
I'd say it's at least 50/50, maybe better that he opts out. The variables at play have changed so much in just the last year.
1) All indications are that Gordon is treating this year like a contract year. You can see it with your own eyes, he's never looked this in shape by a significant margin.
2) Eric Gordon has delusions of grandeur. "Gordon has set the bar high this season. He wants to be an All-Star participant like Davis was last season." LINK
3) After the cap rose by $5 million last year we saw what teams did with the extra money. Before the TV deal the expectation was another $3-$4 million increase, but if they do cap smoothing, the cap could increase by $12 million.
Considering how thin the position is I really don't see why he can't have 4/$40 as a starting point for his market value, especially if the cap smoothing happens. If he has a healthy and productive year, I think it's very likely that he does opt out to cash in on his "All Star" level talent.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 1:32 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
I'd say it's at least 50/50, maybe better that he opts out. The variables at play have changed so much in just the last year
I really hope you are right and that would be a total game changer. I just don't think it will happen. I can only think of a handful of guys that have actually opted out, without the guarantee they would be getting max level money. He's not that type of a player. Plus I don't want to pin all my hopes that he makes a decision that benefits us, only to be let down again by the guy.
quote:
Considering how thin the position is I really don't see why he can't have 4/$40 as a starting point for his market value, especially if the cap smoothing happens.
There are a lot of unknowns with the cap and teams will have to overpay guys. But that started this past summer. So we already know where his value is and about where he would be paid, which should be about 6-8M a year. Avery Bradley got 4/32M, which some people thought was outrageous. But he's a defensive demon that is a proficient 3pt shooter, so he had better value (I would say better than Gordon right now). I think 4 years is stretching it a bit. Teams will be reluctant with his injury history, so I would think a 2 year deal with a 3rd year option. Let's say a team really goes all out and offers him a 3y/27M. Would he opt out of 15.5 for one year to take that deal? I don't know..
quote:
"Gordon has set the bar high this season. He wants to be an All-Star participant like Davis was last season."
There is almost no way Gordon ever sniffs the all-star game (he's not even a top 15 guard in the West). I would just be shocked. If he did, he'd be setting the world on fire and I'd hope he didn't opt out since we'd finally be getting our moneys worth. I guess we'd be having a thread about trading Holiday or Evans then..
Posted on 10/11/14 at 2:42 pm to brmark70816
Omer Asik and a revitalized Eric Gordon are going to save Monty's job by putting this team in the playoffs this season. Monty has done an OK job as a first time coach and would not have a problem finding a job if he were let go like many other one and dones who couldnt hack it.
This is really the first season all the stars are aligning for Monty. Up until now, Dell has not put this team in a position to succeed. The roster has finally shaped up, so it's win or GTFO for both of them this season.
This is really the first season all the stars are aligning for Monty. Up until now, Dell has not put this team in a position to succeed. The roster has finally shaped up, so it's win or GTFO for both of them this season.
Posted on 10/11/14 at 3:46 pm to brmark70816
quote:
There is almost no way Gordon ever sniffs the all-star game
The point is that he believes that's his value, therefore that's the kind of money he thinks he can get. I said before last free agency that Gordon Hayward and Lance Stephenson would be the deals he'd look to as what his value should be, and they got more than everyone thought they would.
I don't see any reason to believe that he thinks his value should be set by Avery Bradley. Teams don't pay for defense like they do offense. When the market was both flooded with similar level offensive SGs, and more team friendly because of the new CBA, $7-$8 million is what guys like Monta Ellis, Kevin Martin, OJ Mayo and Marcus Thornton got. If Gordon is healthy and productive this season, no way is his value 4/$32 when that's his value in a team friendly market.
You may be right on the 4 years with his injury history, which could make a difference, but short term deals appear to be blowing up in the face of Atlanta and Charlotte with Millsap and Al Jefferson. Still, in this escalating players market, Gordon's value should be at least $10 million per if he has a good year.
This post was edited on 10/11/14 at 4:19 pm
Posted on 10/11/14 at 5:30 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
I said before last free agency that Gordon Hayward and Lance Stephenson would be the deals he'd look to as what his value should be, and they got more than everyone thought they would.
That may be true, but this isn't Gordon's 1st major contract, like Stephenson and Hayward. They are ascending talents coming off rookie deals. Plus Stephenson's new deal was just 3/27M. Of course it was cut down due to his actions in the playoffs, but he didn't have a huge market like a lot of people thought he might. Gordon's age and declining skills might hurt him a bit more than you think. He has a lot more history than those guys (He hit the wall early and hard)..
quote:
I don't see any reason to believe that he thinks his value should be set by Avery Bradley.
I used Bradley cause he just signed his deal this summer. It is hard to believe but he is actually a decent scorer and had basically the same offensive numbers as Gordon last season. I'm just assuming that Gordon will have pretty much the same numbers as last year. There are only so many shots to spread around and even as the 2nd option (more likely 3rd or 4th on this team), I can't see those numbers sky rocketing.
quote:
Still, in this escalating players market, Gordon's value should be at least $10 million per if he has a good year.
We'll see. I don't know what team will make that reach though. He isn't as bad as I think he is, but I still don't see him as anything more than a 4th option (maybe 2nd or 3rd on a bad team). But teams reach all the time. He'll have to be sure and have an offer in hand before he opts out though. I don't know if they market will be that vocal for him to go through with it.
The more disturbing option and one we don't ever talk about on here is.. do the Pelicans offer an extension to get cap relief? The Spurs did it with Richard Jefferson. Maybe the Pelicans offer a 4/36M deal to gain 6M+ next summer. That way Gordon has the guaranteed money and feels comfortable opting out (gives us the ability to keep shopping him). I'm kind of scared that's the way it ends up going down and we still can't find a trade partner..
Posted on 10/11/14 at 6:42 pm to brmark70816
Another thing the new TV deal changes is that the team could have $20 - $30 million in cap space in 2016 with the new cap. This assumes keeping Asik for about $12 and some of the cap space would be needed to resign Ryno, but the escalating cap makes waiting Gordon out if he opts in more of an option than it was before the new TV deal.
This post was edited on 10/11/14 at 6:43 pm
Posted on 10/12/14 at 4:24 pm to LosLobos111
quote:How do they treat them?
We've seen how the rockets treat their players.
Posted on 10/12/14 at 4:29 pm to TigerinATL
In 2016 we have on the books:
Tyreke
Jrue
AD
Rivers
Smith
Young
They add up to 22.5 mil. I know AD will get his max and asik will likely resign so it'll be more like 45-50 mil on the books(I think) with a near 80 mil cap.
They could get rid of rivers to free up even more.
Wonder what we'll do with that cap space?
Tyreke
Jrue
AD
Rivers
Smith
Young
They add up to 22.5 mil. I know AD will get his max and asik will likely resign so it'll be more like 45-50 mil on the books(I think) with a near 80 mil cap.
They could get rid of rivers to free up even more.
Wonder what we'll do with that cap space?
Posted on 10/12/14 at 4:32 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
How do they treat them?
What they did to Lin while courting melo was in bad taste.
Parsons
Royce White
This post was edited on 10/12/14 at 4:36 pm
Posted on 10/12/14 at 4:53 pm to LosLobos111
What about Parsons and Royce White?
Posted on 10/12/14 at 7:02 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
What about Parsons and Royce White?
White issues with rockets are well documented. Morey later calls him "the worst first round pick ever".
The blunder by morey after saying that parsons would stick around for a while. He then proceeds to decline his option to ill fatingly chase a star rather than keeping him on a 900K contract for a year.
Morey only really cares about assets. What happened to team chemistry?
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