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Middle Grounders: GoT vs. ASOIAF through 3 books/4seasons

Posted on 9/9/14 at 9:23 pm
Posted by NawlinsTiger9
Where the mongooses roam
Member since Jan 2009
34905 posts
Posted on 9/9/14 at 9:23 pm
So I've officially entered Davos territory, having just finished A Storm of Swords last night. The books are incredible as advertised. I'm antsy to talk about it so I wanted to start a new off-season thread with some half-cocked observations that I noticed while reading. It's tl;dr but whatever, hopefully someone will be up for a discussion.



This post contains spoilers from the first 3 books of A Song of Ice and Fire and all 4 seasons of Game of Thrones. The epilogue will not be discussed here, nor will content in books 4 or 5. If you wish not to see this material, then leave now.







Things the show does better:


Making me hate Joffrey

- Don't get me wrong, I despised him in the book, too, but in the show he gets a little more attention. The scene where he tortures the prostitutes never happens in the books; Roz doesn't even exist, so we don't get to see him kill her with the crossbow, either. All of these little scenes and interactions serve to really create a true psychopath, which make the Purple Wedding even sweeter in the long run.

Keeping the Red Wedding a brutal surprise

- The Red Wedding gets a lot of foreshadow upon a rewatch of the series, but it's nothing compared to the books. Keep in mind that 90% of Robb's storyline is told from Lady Cat's perspective, (which came as a shock to me that one of the major characters in the series so far never had his own chapter of narration), so we see her constantly fretting about the Freys inside her head. There's also the chapter where Dany visits the House of the Undying, where she literally sees in a "vision" the aftermath of a massacre at a feast, complete with a dead king on the throne with a wolf's head on his body. Maybe it's because I knew it was coming anyway, but there was nothing subtle about that at all. Factor that in with Lord Bolton's traitorous behavior, and by the time Robb gets killed it actually makes more sense than it would if he had survived.

Oberyn's Characterization

- I loved this dude in the show. Loved him. I was glued to every scene he was in, couldn't wait to see him fight, hated to see him go, etc. I expected to get the same character appeal from the book, but it was all so brief. The story he tells Tyrion in the dungeon before saying he'll be his champion was actually told the first time they meet, and it just didn't pack the same punch as that scene did. (To be fair, that's probably my favorite scene in the entire show, so the bar was raised pretty high.) Conversations with Tywin and Cersei were left out, as was the brothel scene where he fricks up a couple of Lannisters just for humming their little tune within earshot. It's not that the text did a poor job of it, because it was still enthralling; I just feel like the show knocked it out of the park.




Things the book does better:


Establishing the Mountain as a heartless fricking monster

- He is an unholy terror throughout the books, while in the show he seems to disappear for a while. There was a story that Arya overhears at some point about the Mountain raping a young girl right in front of her dad after throwing him a piece of silver, and then asking for change afterwards. It really makes your stomach turn, but you also never forget he's out there lurking.

Jon Snow, Qhorin and the Wildlings

- I hated how the show blamed Jon Snow for Qhorin Halfhand and the other rangers getting caught beyond the wall. In the book, Qhorin is almost impressed that Jon let Ygritte go, saying he "had to see what kind of man he was" before he knew what to do with him. It's a warg and his eagle that dooms them in the books, but the show makes it look like Jon is responsible for everyone dying. It just seemed unnecessary and kind of takes some of the bite out of Jon's character for a while. Qhorin's death was so quick and emotionless in the show, but his sacrifice is much more heartfelt in the text.

Anything to do with Robert's Rebellion

- This is by far the biggest gripe I have, and the show has ignored it so thoroughly that I almost feel like they have a plan to revisit it at some point. Has the show even mentioned Rhaegar's name? Maybe once or twice? We've beaten this to death on this board already so I won't rehash everything, but man, there's a lot of good content and characterization that you get from the first book that the show just doesn't even attempt to cover.



Random observations


- The show really took some liberties with the Theon/Ramsay storyline from what I can tell. That being said, The Bastard of Bolton is probably the most vicious character in the books, and I haven't even gotten to the torture scenes yet - assuming they even exist. That guy is a complete psychopath, by Lord Bolton's own admission.

- Some old guy kills the Titan's Bastard with a wooden staff and then reveals himself to be Barristan Selmy? So awesome. Just so damn awesome. I can see why the show omitted Strong Belwas, and how it would have been difficult for a character to reveal his secret identity when we've all already seen him on camera, but I would have loved to see them make this happen on television.

- I won't discuss the epilogue of A Storm of Swords since it hasn't been shown on TV yet...but my jaw dropped after I read it. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

- Jaime is just a fantastic character on every level. Reading his thoughts in the third book was awesome.

- I'm not completely convinced through 3 books and 4 seasons that Dany's storyline is enhancing the series. It might be an unpopular opinion, and there's certainly aspects of it that are entertaining as hell - but very few of them have anything to do with her. Barristan Selmy and the Rhaegar references are the most interesting things so far. It's not that it isn't a good story, it just very rarely relates to everything else that's going on in the GoT universe. The storylines overlapping and affecting each other is what makes everything so great, and Dany's arc just doesn't do that too often. I'm sure it will improve in the future.
This post was edited on 9/9/14 at 9:25 pm
Posted by lsuguy84
CO
Member since Feb 2009
19661 posts
Posted on 9/9/14 at 9:32 pm to
I'm still trudging through book 2. I'm ready to start reading three and four.
Posted by NawlinsTiger9
Where the mongooses roam
Member since Jan 2009
34905 posts
Posted on 9/9/14 at 9:33 pm to
Book 3 will fly by for you, it's fantastic and I can absolutely see why they broke it up into 2 seasons.
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
36652 posts
Posted on 9/9/14 at 9:35 pm to
quote:

Roz doesn't even exist, so we don't get to see him kill her with the crossbow, either


when this happened ,as a reader, this made me like Joff a bit. Seeing joff "day to day" makes you hate him much more. The actor that played Joffrey was on point.
quote:

Keeping the Red Wedding a brutal surprise

- The Red Wedding gets a lot of foreshadow upon a rewatch of the series, but it's nothing compared to the books. Keep in mind that 90% of Robb's storyline is told from Lady Cat's perspective, (which came as a shock to me that one of the major characters in the series so far never had his own chapter of narration), so we see her constantly fretting about the Freys inside her head. There's also the chapter where Dany visits the House of the Undying, where she literally sees in a "vision" the aftermath of a massacre at a feast, complete with a dead king on the throne with a wolf's head on his body. Maybe it's because I knew it was coming anyway, but there was nothing subtle about that at all. Factor that in with Lord Bolton's traitorous behavior, and by the time Robb gets killed it actually makes more sense than it would if he had survived.


This, sure there are a ton of hits but denial isn't just a river in Egypt


quote:

- The show really took some liberties with the Theon/Ramsay storyline from what I can tell. That being said, The Bastard of Bolton is probably the most vicious character in the books, and I haven't even gotten to the torture scenes yet - assuming they even exist. That guy is a complete psychopath, by Lord Bolton's own admission.



yes/no, you see it rather than hear. Much like Joff

quote:

- Jaime is just a fantastic character on every level. Reading his thoughts in the third book was awesome.



word up


quote:

m not completely convinced through 3 books and 4 seasons that Dany's storyline is enhancing the series. It might be an unpopular opinion, and there's certainly aspects of it that are entertaining as hell - but very few of them have anything to do with her. Barristan Selmy and the Rhaegar references are the most interesting things so far. It's not that it isn't a good story, it just very rarely relates to everything else that's going on in the GoT universe. The storylines overlapping and affecting each other is what makes everything so great, and Dany's arc just doesn't do that too often. I'm sure it will improve in the future.


just wait
This post was edited on 9/9/14 at 9:36 pm
Posted by John McClane
Member since Apr 2010
36695 posts
Posted on 9/9/14 at 9:42 pm to
Excellent post my friend. I feel you will be a great contributor as a Maester.

I pretty much agree with your posts, at least up to where you are right now.
Posted by ladytiger118
Member since Aug 2009
20922 posts
Posted on 9/9/14 at 9:51 pm to
Same here.

He's made a lot of great observations in his OP and I tend to agree with him on every point, especially with the Jon-Qhorin deal. The books made it very clear that Qhorin was sending Jon on a mission; I felt like the show kind of skimmed over that and made it seem like Jon willingly joined the Wildlings. His exchange with Qhorin flew by so fast and before you knew it Qhorin was dead. I was a Hodor when S2 first debuted and I was so confused during that whole scene. Once I read ACoK it made way more sense. I blame it on the show writers for not clarifying that. Book Jon always knew he'd go back to the Crows, but to "break bread with them for however long it takes" like Qhorin told him to. No doubt, Jon was definitely conflicted in the books about it and grew to respect the Wildling culture and view them as his allies and that they should all fight the common enemy (the White Walkers). He was definitely conflicted about his love for Ygritte vs. his duty too. I think the show did a good job with that aspect and Rose and Kit had good on-screen chemistry. I actually prefer Show Ygritte to Book Ygritte, mainly because of Rose Leslie's portrayal of her.
Posted by NawlinsTiger9
Where the mongooses roam
Member since Jan 2009
34905 posts
Posted on 9/9/14 at 10:23 pm to
Thanks for the feedback y'all.

I'm torn on whether I should go ahead and read the next 2 now or wait until next season ends. My roommates and I have been all-in on the show together and I feel like my reading the books would ruin any future theories we could discuss together. I would hate to ruin that bond but damn do I ever want to keep reading.
Posted by ladytiger118
Member since Aug 2009
20922 posts
Posted on 9/9/14 at 10:29 pm to
Go ahead and read the next 2 books.
Posted by John McClane
Member since Apr 2010
36695 posts
Posted on 9/9/14 at 10:30 pm to
quote:

I actually prefer Show Ygritte to Book Ygritte, mainly because of Rose Leslie's portrayal of her.
I prefer Rose because I get to look at her
Posted by John McClane
Member since Apr 2010
36695 posts
Posted on 9/9/14 at 10:31 pm to
Keep reading; then ditch the Hodors and discuss theories with your crackpot friends
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
36652 posts
Posted on 9/9/14 at 11:02 pm to
quote:

I actually prefer Show Ygritte to Book Ygritte, mainly because of Rose Leslie's portrayal of her.



agreed Rose is way hotter than I thought frozen babe would be.

quote:

Keep reading; then ditch the Hodors and discuss theories with your crackpot friends



Team GNC
This post was edited on 9/9/14 at 11:03 pm
Posted by NIH
Member since Aug 2008
112664 posts
Posted on 9/9/14 at 11:07 pm to
As much shite as GRRM gets, the books are great, with maybe the exception of book 5. The show's only truly great season was one.
Posted by ladytiger118
Member since Aug 2009
20922 posts
Posted on 9/10/14 at 6:18 am to
I think every season has been great .
Posted by glassman
Next to the beer taps at Finn's
Member since Oct 2008
116143 posts
Posted on 9/10/14 at 6:20 am to
Yep.
Posted by PsychTiger
Member since Jul 2004
99057 posts
Posted on 9/10/14 at 8:25 am to
quote:

Middle Grounders


I'm a proud papa right now.
Posted by BloodSweat&Beers
One Particular Harbor, Fl
Member since Jan 2012
9153 posts
Posted on 9/10/14 at 9:32 am to
Finish reading the books before someone spoils something.
Posted by BlackleafBaller
Member since Oct 2012
1863 posts
Posted on 9/10/14 at 9:47 am to
quote:

The show's only truly great season was one.


I don't know your reading history, but season 1 was the only one I saw prior to reading the books so I also think it was the best season by far as I had no expectations on what would happen next. I wouldn't say it was the only great season though. If it's the same for you, I think that may be affecting your opinion some since a lot of the great moments were spoiled by reading and knowing generally what was going to happen. As a Hodor though, I would imagine last season was probably the best one (excluding Dany's storyline).
Posted by the smoke monster
USA USA USA
Member since Aug 2010
4507 posts
Posted on 9/10/14 at 9:54 am to
quote:

Jaime is just a fantastic character on every level. Reading his thoughts in the third book was awesome


After starting off as a Hodor show watcher, I never thought I'd be able to like Jamie (ya know, for pushing Bran out the window), but the books are awesome because you get so much more backstory behind his motivations and what not.

Book 4 has a lot of Jamie, so enjoy!
Posted by TDTGodfather
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2007
6169 posts
Posted on 9/10/14 at 9:58 am to
i love these types of posts bc i'm not spoiler allergic (especially dealing with things that have happened to where the show has left off) and i like to hear comparisons from what happened in books to the show.

i've decided to start reading the books but am starting with the dunk and egg books before GOT. i still have 1 more to go.

the only thing i've learned thru reading so far is that the targ history could be a whole other show with multiple seasons.
Posted by NawlinsTiger9
Where the mongooses roam
Member since Jan 2009
34905 posts
Posted on 9/10/14 at 12:17 pm to
quote:

the only thing i've learned thru reading so far is that the targ history could be a whole other show with multiple seasons.



I really, really want a prequel movie/season when this is all said and done. Seeing Robert's Rebellion from the perspective of the different houses would be so awesome on screen.

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