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Started By
Message
Old time deer management ideas...why do people love em
Posted on 8/25/14 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 8/25/14 at 4:13 pm
Joined a new lease. Great land, good hunting plenty of deer, and good to great flooded slough timber duck hunting. From what I hear, most of membership doesn't deer hunt at all. Weirdest thing is that they basically are anti doe killing. I kind of thought this was a thing of the past.
I would join no matter what the rules are, I like the terrain, I know some members well, and there are good deer there and you get the bonus of good duck hunting. Why do some folks encourage no doe harvest, is there a biological reason why? I ask because I believe this property is on DMAP as well and gets some biologist guidance.
I would join no matter what the rules are, I like the terrain, I know some members well, and there are good deer there and you get the bonus of good duck hunting. Why do some folks encourage no doe harvest, is there a biological reason why? I ask because I believe this property is on DMAP as well and gets some biologist guidance.
9
Posted on 8/25/14 at 4:16 pm to tigerfoot
To kill doe or not kill doe is not a universal response. It completely depends on current population, environmental factors, expected predation, and fawn survival rates for a particular area.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 4:16 pm to tigerfoot
old timers think if you kill does it will hurt the herd population
Posted on 8/25/14 at 4:16 pm to tigerfoot
quote:They remember the days when you took a picture of a hoof print. That, or they can't get over the thought that does produce bucks. I had a conversation with one of these people in Avoyelles that I wish I had recorded.
Why do some folks encourage no doe harvest,
Posted on 8/25/14 at 4:20 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
had a conversation with one of these people in Avoyelles that I wish I had recorded.
it had to have been somewhere around spring bayou
Posted on 8/25/14 at 4:40 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
anti doe killing
quote:
property is on DMAP
Not being managed correctly if this is the case - kill them does...
Posted on 8/25/14 at 4:41 pm to jorconalx
There are two common misconceptions people have about doe harvest.
1. If I shoot alot of does, it will decrease my deer herd.
2. If I shoot alot of does, my bucks will leave.
Neither of these are true (or entirely true). First, in terms of population decrease, there is a tiny bit of truth. If you remove does, you remove chances at reproduction. What most people do not realize however, is that any given area has a specific "carry capacity" determined by environment, pressure, food availability, etc. By removing mouths (does) from your area, you are increasing the amount of available food for each surviving deer. Think of it like a piece of pie. You can have twelve small slices, or 6 big slices. The size of the pie is fixed. The amount of food is your pie, and it will stay the same unless you do alot of habitat management with forage production in mind.
In terms of the second misconception, taking does away from your area will not make your bucks leave. I spoke to a good friend who is a wildlife biologist on this topic recently. He said that "with the exception of the rut, bucks want nothing to do with does. Bucks keep to themselves, bed in different areas, often travel in other areas and feed in other areas than areas where large does congregate. By removing does from your herd, you are creating a "healthier" rut for your population. Your bucks will be competing for the remaining number of does."
Here's another factor about doe harvest that I never thought about until my friend enlightened me. In my part of Mississippi where my property is, we have very very fertile soils and an EXTREMELY high deer density (60-70 deer per sq. mile). We always have two big ruts (first and biggest rut is the first week of January) and the second is the end of January/early Feb. According to my trail cam data, over the past few years, we've had a THIRD rut in the end of Feb./first week of March. Bucks are scraping into March. All of this happens because our buck/doe ratio is so skewed that some of the does aren't bred in the first or second rut, so they come into heat again. This causes a problem in the fawning season, because we have does having fawns over a two month period. By spreading out the fawning season, there are less fawns at a given time and fawns are more susceptible to predators. If there was a single major rut and all the fawns were born at one time, there would be a big flush of fawns at one time. It would spread the predators out and be harder for predators to pick the fawns off. So a skewed buck/doe ratio has a major effect on herd health, rut health, and fawn survival.
In other words, SHOOT DOES.
1. If I shoot alot of does, it will decrease my deer herd.
2. If I shoot alot of does, my bucks will leave.
Neither of these are true (or entirely true). First, in terms of population decrease, there is a tiny bit of truth. If you remove does, you remove chances at reproduction. What most people do not realize however, is that any given area has a specific "carry capacity" determined by environment, pressure, food availability, etc. By removing mouths (does) from your area, you are increasing the amount of available food for each surviving deer. Think of it like a piece of pie. You can have twelve small slices, or 6 big slices. The size of the pie is fixed. The amount of food is your pie, and it will stay the same unless you do alot of habitat management with forage production in mind.
In terms of the second misconception, taking does away from your area will not make your bucks leave. I spoke to a good friend who is a wildlife biologist on this topic recently. He said that "with the exception of the rut, bucks want nothing to do with does. Bucks keep to themselves, bed in different areas, often travel in other areas and feed in other areas than areas where large does congregate. By removing does from your herd, you are creating a "healthier" rut for your population. Your bucks will be competing for the remaining number of does."
Here's another factor about doe harvest that I never thought about until my friend enlightened me. In my part of Mississippi where my property is, we have very very fertile soils and an EXTREMELY high deer density (60-70 deer per sq. mile). We always have two big ruts (first and biggest rut is the first week of January) and the second is the end of January/early Feb. According to my trail cam data, over the past few years, we've had a THIRD rut in the end of Feb./first week of March. Bucks are scraping into March. All of this happens because our buck/doe ratio is so skewed that some of the does aren't bred in the first or second rut, so they come into heat again. This causes a problem in the fawning season, because we have does having fawns over a two month period. By spreading out the fawning season, there are less fawns at a given time and fawns are more susceptible to predators. If there was a single major rut and all the fawns were born at one time, there would be a big flush of fawns at one time. It would spread the predators out and be harder for predators to pick the fawns off. So a skewed buck/doe ratio has a major effect on herd health, rut health, and fawn survival.
In other words, SHOOT DOES.
This post was edited on 8/25/14 at 4:45 pm
Posted on 8/25/14 at 4:50 pm to tigerfoot
Ugly women look a lot better in Alaska where the male population is greater than the female population.
Those bucks would move around a lot more looking for the few does that are still around..
Those bucks would move around a lot more looking for the few does that are still around..
Posted on 8/25/14 at 4:53 pm to Shexter
quote:
Ugly women look a lot better in Alaska where the male population is greater than the female population.
Those bucks would move around a lot more looking for the few does that are still around..
That's the general idea, haha. Less does make for a more active/competitive rut for the bucks, which is good for all of us hunters!
Posted on 8/25/14 at 5:15 pm to TheBowhunter
I was looking at a camp down in Avoyelles parish and I was standing in the front yard talking to the property owner. A huge cow horn spike (easily 2.5 to 3 yrs old and I swear the tines were 12+ inches long) comes running down the road. I looked at the guy and said "that's a huge deer its a shame he has such bad genetics". The guy then tells me "I'll guarantee you he will be atleast a 6 pt. next year." I didn't really know what to say 
Posted on 8/25/14 at 5:18 pm to tigerfoot
Just shoot them when no one is looking
Posted on 8/25/14 at 5:48 pm to MillerMan
I do understand that there are more factors than just shoot does or not shoot does. But it seems they actually discourage shooting does. Beautiful property, by all accounts many many deer are seen, but few really good bucks are killed a year.
Not a pine in sight, so that is very appealing to me, not that there is anything wrong with em, I just grew up hunting exclusive hardwood and look forward to being back in em.
Not a pine in sight, so that is very appealing to me, not that there is anything wrong with em, I just grew up hunting exclusive hardwood and look forward to being back in em.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 5:51 pm to TheBowhunter
quote:At some point the bucks are like, come on you chicks, I gotta get a sandwich.
All of this happens because our buck/doe ratio is so skewed that some of the does aren't bred in the first or second rut, so they come into heat again.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 5:51 pm to tigerfoot
where you hunting (not exact location, just wondering about where)
Posted on 8/25/14 at 6:06 pm to jorconalx
east of Mecca.
I am from there, and my parents are having more and more trouble traveling, so having another reason to head up there with the kids and maybe knock out a hunt or two while they get some low stress grandkid time is another reason to be up that way.
I am from there, and my parents are having more and more trouble traveling, so having another reason to head up there with the kids and maybe knock out a hunt or two while they get some low stress grandkid time is another reason to be up that way.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 6:12 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
I am from there,
surrrre you are, suuurrre.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 6:12 pm to Shexter
quote:
Posted by Shexter Ugly women look a lot better in Alaska where the male population is greater than the female population. Those bucks would move around a lot more looking for the few does that are still around..
this has got to be the BEST reason i've ever herd
Posted on 8/25/14 at 6:14 pm to Ole Geauxt
don't make me call you out. May have to meet up behind Midway dam and sort your arse out
Posted on 8/25/14 at 6:17 pm to tigerfoot
just make it the goat run, or the piggly wiggly parkin' lot, punk!
loser buys ice cream from no count peegees.
loser buys ice cream from no count peegees.
Posted on 8/25/14 at 6:20 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
I am from there
didn't know that, always thought you were from alex. oldest just started at ulm gonna be up that way tomorrow evening and try to catch up with geauxt
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