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Started By
Message
Help the Kurds establish a new sovereign Kurdish nation-state.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 11:10 am
Posted on 8/17/14 at 11:10 am
We are in combat alongside Kurdish ground forces against ISIL.
Of course, the US role is air support to the Kurdish ground forces. I understand that we are arming the Kurdish ground forces.
What if we continue this to an end-state of establishing a new Kurdish nation, after the Kurds defeat ISIL within the borders of the New Kurdistan?
Then, the US can get out of there and let the Shia and Sunni deal with ISIL on their own terms.
Iraq will no longer be composed of the lands used to establish Kurdistan. Those lands were lost by conquest to ISIL.
Thoughts?
Of course, the US role is air support to the Kurdish ground forces. I understand that we are arming the Kurdish ground forces.
What if we continue this to an end-state of establishing a new Kurdish nation, after the Kurds defeat ISIL within the borders of the New Kurdistan?
Then, the US can get out of there and let the Shia and Sunni deal with ISIL on their own terms.
Iraq will no longer be composed of the lands used to establish Kurdistan. Those lands were lost by conquest to ISIL.
Thoughts?
This post was edited on 8/17/14 at 11:11 am
8
Posted on 8/17/14 at 11:13 am to Champagne
Do it.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 11:23 am to Champagne
So many people were opposed to the three state solution at the outset even though it always appeared to offer the greatest stability. I think we clung on to the notion of a unified Iraq as a buffer state to Iran so much that we wishfully thought Iraq could be a stable democratic state.
The 3 state solution may well be the only viable solution for Iraq's future.
The 3 state solution may well be the only viable solution for Iraq's future.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 11:29 am to ChewyDante
Iraq is a failed state. It collapsed under the weight of its own artificial edifice.
I do not propose that the US establishes three new nation-states at this time.
My proposal is to help the Kurds beat the hell out of ISIL and drive them far away from the borders of the coming Republic of Kurdistan. The USA builds just this one more nation -- and this is the last time we do so.
If the UN objects, we say: "Fine, then send UN forces there to try your solution. By the way, the USA will not provide any support for the UN effort to unravel the US solution."
If "Iraq" objects, tell them, "you lost those lands by conquest, defend what you have left".
I do not propose that the US establishes three new nation-states at this time.
My proposal is to help the Kurds beat the hell out of ISIL and drive them far away from the borders of the coming Republic of Kurdistan. The USA builds just this one more nation -- and this is the last time we do so.
If the UN objects, we say: "Fine, then send UN forces there to try your solution. By the way, the USA will not provide any support for the UN effort to unravel the US solution."
If "Iraq" objects, tell them, "you lost those lands by conquest, defend what you have left".
This post was edited on 8/17/14 at 11:30 am
Posted on 8/17/14 at 11:37 am to Champagne
Let them do it themselves. I don't want Americans dying for another country.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 11:39 am to Champagne
Put a base in Kurdistan. They want it and it'll help keep crap like this from flaring up.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 11:43 am to jlc05
Moar World Police!
Posted on 8/17/14 at 11:45 am to Champagne
I'd support offering them air support and perhaps special forces, but nothing more. The point is, this reality could have been seen 10 years ago but no one in the United States leadership, really in either party, was willing to seriously consider a 3 state solution. I seem to recall many people laughing it off as a terrible option on message boards. The result has been a stubborn commitment to a violence plagued, sectarian, failed Iraqi state that cost thousands of American lives in the occupation stage.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 11:58 am to cwill
Isolationism isn't a viable policy either! Look at how well it's working!
Posted on 8/17/14 at 12:01 pm to ChewyDante
GeauxxxxTigers23 will offer USMC support to the effort, so we will have enough of a footprint on the ground to make the New Republic of Kurdistan a reality.
Wolfhound 45 may be available for the post of Generalissimo and Minister of War, New Republic of Kurdistan.
Wolfhound 45 may be available for the post of Generalissimo and Minister of War, New Republic of Kurdistan.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 12:10 pm to Champagne
Kurdistan would bring Turkey, Syria, and Iran into the conflict. All have land that's part of "Kurdistan".
Posted on 8/17/14 at 12:16 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
Kurdistan would bring Turkey, Syria, and Iran into the conflict. All have land that's part of "Kurdistan".
A) Syria and Iran are already in the conflict
B) Syria doesn't really control their own Kurdish areas due to the civil war. When I last left there were talks of the Syrian Kurds joining the Iraqi Kurds if the Iraqi Kurds got independence.
C) Turkey, once so opposed to the idea that the US couldn't support an independent Kurdistan, now kinda wants it. This is mainly due to the potential oil exports Kurdistan can have. Now, with the majors (XOM and Chevron for example) having left, it does question the full output the Kurdistan could have in the coming years. It would be better for Turkey in the long run to have the Kurds be independent (not their Kurds obliviously) for the exports
D) Iranian Kurds don't really care about independence as much as the rest as they aren't treated like 2nd class citizens. In Syria, Iraq, and Turkey this has been the case for far too long.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 12:23 pm to jlc05
quote:
Posted by jlc05 Isolationism isn't a viable policy either! Look at how well it's working!
We currently have an isolationist foreign policy?
Actually, our interventionist policy isn't working out so well. It has served only to knock the boiling pot over.
I don't want to spend more American lives fighting in an Islamic civil war. There isn't an existential threat requiring our blood. To not want to get involved isn't isolationism, it's non-intervention.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 12:26 pm to cwill
quote:
To not want to get involved isn't isolationism, it's non-intervention.
Right. The term isolationism is political and completely dishonest in how it's typically used.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 12:30 pm to Champagne
It would only work if it was just in Iraq.
Turkey and company would say no chance in hell.
Turkey and company would say no chance in hell.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 1:08 pm to StraightCashHomey21
Yes, there's no way that the New Republic of Kurdistan could draw it's borders outside of the current borders of Iraq.
The Kurds I think claim part of land currently inside Turkey as Kurdish land, but, my idea is to set up the Kurdish state inside the current borders of Iraq.
The Kurds, if they want to try to conquer some land from Turkey or Syria, trigger complete US withdrawal as soon as they try.
The Kurds I think claim part of land currently inside Turkey as Kurdish land, but, my idea is to set up the Kurdish state inside the current borders of Iraq.
The Kurds, if they want to try to conquer some land from Turkey or Syria, trigger complete US withdrawal as soon as they try.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 1:12 pm to cwill
quote:
I don't want to spend more American lives fighting in an Islamic civil war. There isn't an existential threat requiring our blood. To not want to get involved isn't isolationism, it's non-intervention.
What's the deal, dude? We do not now have, nor will the USA ever completely embrace Isolationism.
We get your point: you want complete US withdrawal from the ME. This is one of Osama bin Laden's conditions for the USA to obey, if the US wants peace with Al Qaeda.
But, right now, the USA is still fighting in Iraq. This thread is to discuss an idea for ending our fighting there by setting up a new Kurdish Republic.
Discussion of the merits of Total US Isolationism is a worthy topic for another thread. Start that thread. I'll bet that you'll get lots of clever input, because lots of people agree with you.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 1:34 pm to cwill
quote:
We currently have an isolationist foreign policy?
Actually, our interventionist policy isn't working out so well. It has served only to knock the boiling pot over.
On the surface, yes, it appears to be non-interventionist. With respect to a certain instrument of power and its continuing defunding, I believe the administration's real position is beyond non-intervention. Wrt to the diplomatic instrument of power, it's at least non-intervention mostly due to incompetence.
Anyway, the Kurds want our help and propping them up will help the fight against ISIS. And a base there would help. The SOF should be discussed again.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 1:38 pm to jlc05
If Turkey kicks us out of our bases in Turkey, we may need a military base in New Republic of Kurdistan.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 1:42 pm to Champagne
Don't think it will happen, but I think it's their base anyway. Incirlik is a shite hole tour so it would be welcomed. Support creation of Kurdistan and we'd have to have an agreement in place for a new base there!
ETA - vacating Incirlik and our GSUs would be welcomed by the administration for sure.
ETA - vacating Incirlik and our GSUs would be welcomed by the administration for sure.
This post was edited on 8/17/14 at 1:45 pm
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