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Uber and Lyft Are The Arguments to turn (Social) Liberals to Libertarians

Posted on 8/2/14 at 9:42 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422585 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 9:42 am
i was listening to a podcast earlier this week about the "sharing" economy, mostly dealing with the effects of uber/lyft on the price of taxi medallions. medallions were previously one of the best investments on earth, and a function of nothing more than local crony capitalism (create a cartel by limiting, legally, the number of market participants)

the rise in popularity of the "ride sharing" apps like uber and lyft are eroding the price of these medallions, because the market is speaking and market participants like the innovation (and potential savings) of the new tech. what are local governments doing? using the power of the state to criminalize this behavior in order to protect the cartels

this is a real world, plain view example of the argument of libertarians relating to how we deal with government infringing on our property rights as well as corruption in government. this sort of injustice will only exist IF we allow government to have the power. want to reduce corruption? reduce the power of that government position as well as the amount of money it can spend. who will bribe that person? kill the head and the body will die.

also, remember, this government protection of cartels benefits the rich. sure, the face of the argument for market protection (they took our jobs!) will be the poor drivers, but they are not the ones purchasing the medallions that are worth 7-figures. the "labor" argument is a hollow one, and it is ironic that those who claim to represent the workers are really defending management.

also, uber/lyft are "real world" examples, but with the "sharing economy" and the proliferation of communication and information exchanges via the internet and mobile technology, it's the tip of the ice berg. if you think about how this sort of tech, as well as other developments in tech may occur, society may change. the efficiency of society may evolve in ways even my generation can't truly imagine.

there are aps to share parking spaces right now. you signal when you're leaving, another person "buys" that spot's rights, and that's that. this tech is really limited to bigger cities on the west coast and it's just in its infancy, but this will REALLY change the urban lifestyle.

with self-driving cars, we won't even need taxi drivers, truck drivers for cargo, or hell, individual car ownership. down the road, we'll arrange a car to pick us up, drop us off, and then when we need another ride, do the same. hell this will make even the parking aps obsolete. you watch...government will do its best to make driverless cars illegal (we're talking 10M+ jobs lost at least...probably more when you discuss the industry of selling cars itself)

hell, houses may become an outdated concept. sharing living spaces (like we do with cars) will allow for a completely mobile lifestyle

the only thing (within expected reason) that can slow or prevent this progress, is government

Posted by HurricaneDunc
Houston
Member since Nov 2008
10472 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:11 am to
quote:

hell, houses may become an outdated concept. sharing living spaces (like we do with cars) will allow for a completely mobile lifestyle


Like hotels? Or sites like vrbo?

Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422585 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:24 am to
quote:

Like hotels?

this is more long-term, and even in hotels, you're usually not using the room but for maybe 1/2 the day

quote:

Or sites like vrbo?

an ancient version of the sharing economy
Posted by Semaphore
a former French colony
Member since Jan 2013
275 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:25 am to
quote:

Or sites like vrbo?


I think New Orleans has laws against homeowners doing short term rentals, especially during Mardi Gras.

Think about that, the city is protecting the hotel cartel from OWNER's who wish to exercise their property rights.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422585 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:26 am to
quote:

Think about that, the city is protecting the hotel cartel from OWNER's who wish to exercise their property rights.

yup
Posted by Scoop
RIP Scoop
Member since Sep 2005
44583 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:30 am to
quote:

the only thing (within expected reason) that can slow or prevent this progress, is government


I think this will be exponentially more the case anytime technology encroaches on the turf of any entity that has a significant unionized component.

It has always been true as powerful people feeling their business model being threatened by technology would turn to their friends in the government to save them, but it is going to be that 1000xs when there is a union component.
Posted by OleWar
Troy H. Middleton Library
Member since Mar 2008
5828 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:31 am to
Why should I be subject to some a-hole renting out his house next door to a bunch of miscreants for Mardi Gras. This has nothing to do with the "hotel cartel".
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422585 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:33 am to
quote:

This has nothing to do with the "hotel cartel".


actually that is. it's a perfect example of what i'm talking about (it's just kind of idiosyncratic to nola)

i'm pretty sure the city said this law was there to protect the hotel industry

quote:

Why should I be subject to some a-hole renting out his house next door to a bunch of miscreants for Mardi Gras.

why do you have a right to tell him what he's doing with his property?

if those "miscreants" are breaking the law, call the cops...same as if any existential beings are in that house
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
260736 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:36 am to
quote:

Why should I be subject to some a-hole renting out his house next door to a bunch of miscreants for Mardi Gras. This has nothing to do with the "hotel cartel".



Government protecting your sensibilities?
Posted by OleWar
Troy H. Middleton Library
Member since Mar 2008
5828 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:38 am to
With zoning laws, I have the ability to know I generally don't have to call the cops every single day or more during carnival. If the house or neighborhood is zoned residential, it is not a commercial property.
Posted by OleWar
Troy H. Middleton Library
Member since Mar 2008
5828 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:40 am to
Yes the purpose of local government is to reflect the sensibilities of the local community.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422585 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:43 am to
quote:

With zoning laws, I have the ability to know I generally don't have to call the cops every single day or more during carnival.

this is hilarious. you live in a place that celebrates debauchery of "carnival" but you want to be insulated from that

quote:

If the house or neighborhood is zoned residential, it is not a commercial property.

but this isn't really a "commercial" property. the main purpose of the property is residential. its use is must efficiently maximized at certain points (the minority, in this case).

and, again, you're trying to limit a person's dominion over his property (1) for completely selfish reasons and (2) because there may be a disruption, in the middle of a city-wide party, and you don't want to have to call the cops

do i get to tell you how to use your property to, for an event that may annoy me (while i ignore my avenue to directly address the problem IF it may arise in the future)?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422585 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:44 am to
quote:

Yes the purpose of local government is to reflect the sensibilities of the local community.

oh so a month when a city is having a massive fricking month-long alcohol-infused sex romp...with parades shutting down large sections of the city constantly WHILE hosting hundreds of thousands of visitors, you're claiming that the "sensibilities" of the city do not include hosting extra people outside of hotels?

makes sense
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
260736 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:46 am to
quote:

Yes the purpose of local government is to reflect the sensibilities of the local community.



Yours may not be predominant.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
260736 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:47 am to
quote:


oh so a month when a city is having a massive fricking month-long alcohol-infused sex romp...with parades shutting down large sections of the city constantly WHILE hosting hundreds of thousands of visitors, you're claiming that the "sensibilities" of the city do not include hosting extra people outside of hotels?


Exactly
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422585 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:47 am to
it's the height of irony for a person to be complaining about hosting visitors of the city, while addressing sensibilities as the backbone of his point...in the context of MARDI GRAS
Posted by OleWar
Troy H. Middleton Library
Member since Mar 2008
5828 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:50 am to
quote:

this is hilarious. you live in a place that celebrates debauchery of "carnival" but you want to be insulated from that


First, not every neighborhood in New Orleans celebrates carnival and certainly not in the same way. Parade routes are regulated, where alcohol can be served is regulated, pissing in public is illegal, where one shows their genitalia is either frowned upon or accepted in certain parts of the city during festivities.

quote:

do i get to tell you how to use your property to, for an event that may annoy me (while i ignore my avenue to directly address the problem IF it may arise in the future)?


Not you, but the community. This is how society works.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:51 am to
Lewis Hyde talks about some ideas like the sharing economy, which he calls the gift economy. I'm not sure I see the housing argument you are making, but what you also hint at is the massive seachange that is coming with employment. I can't see how the future technological society cannot live without a negative income tax. That might send the conservatives into a frenzy, but I think it is the future.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
260736 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:51 am to
quote:

it's the height of irony for a person to be complaining about hosting visitors of the city, while addressing sensibilities as the backbone of his point...in the context of MARDI GRAS



Right.

Wonder if he wants to limit the number of visitors his neighbor can have? Or house sitters? They may not share the same sensibilities, after all.
This post was edited on 8/2/14 at 10:53 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422585 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 10:55 am to
quote:

I can't see how the future technological society cannot live without a negative income tax

or a min income

but there is also always emigration. if you can't survive in the modern economy, kindly gtfo
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