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Obama administration says the world’s servers are ours

Posted on 7/15/14 at 12:36 pm
Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
45796 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 12:36 pm
LINK

quote:

Global governments, the tech sector, and scholars are closely following a legal flap in which the US Justice Department claims that Microsoft must hand over e-mail stored in Dublin, Ireland.

In essence, President Barack Obama's administration claims that any company with operations in the United States must comply with valid warrants for data, even if the content is stored overseas. It's a position Microsoft and companies like Apple say is wrong, arguing that the enforcement of US law stops at the border.

A magistrate judge has already sided with the government's position, ruling in April that "the basic principle that an entity lawfully obligated to produce information must do so regardless of the location of that information." Microsoft appealed to a federal judge, and the case is set to be heard on July 31.

In its briefs filed last week, the US government said that content stored online doesn't enjoy the same type of Fourth Amendment protections as data stored in the physical world. The government cited (PDF) the Stored Communications Act (SCA), a President Ronald Reagan-era regulation:

Overseas records must be disclosed domestically when a valid subpoena, order, or warrant compels their production. The disclosure of records under such circumstances has never been considered tantamount to a physical search under Fourth Amendment principles, and Microsoft is mistaken to argue that the SCA provides for an overseas search here. As there is no overseas search or seizure, Microsoft’s reliance on principles of extra-territoriality and comity falls wide of the mark.
Posted by Mr.Perfect
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2013
17438 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 12:41 pm to
quote:

say is wrong, arguing that the enforcement of US law stops at the border.


I think it would depend on the location of a transaction.

quote:

the US government said that content stored online doesn't enjoy the same type of Fourth Amendment protections as data stored in the physical world.


this is ludicrous


It reminds me of them saying that the 1st amendment applies to online speech.

Why would one be ok but the other not?
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
94857 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 12:42 pm to
So... when will the Obama Administration surrender to judicial orders demanding certain data from various servers within the US?
Posted by Stingray
Shreveport
Member since Sep 2007
12420 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 12:42 pm to
quote:

In its briefs filed last week, the US government said that content stored online doesn't enjoy the same type of Fourth Amendment protections as data stored in the physical world


Why?
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36128 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 12:43 pm to
quote:


In essence, President Barack Obama's administration claims that any company with operations in the United States must comply with valid warrants for data, even if the content is stored overseas. It's a position Microsoft and companies like Apple say is wrong, arguing that the enforcement of US law stops at the border.




Actually, anyone who is a citizen of the United States is subject to the laws of the United States wherever in the world they are.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

So... when will the Obama Administration surrender to judicial orders demanding certain data from various servers within the US?


Uhm, the hard drives crashed, yeah - the hard drives crashed. All of them. Freaky.
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
94857 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

quote:

the US government said that content stored online doesn't enjoy the same type of Fourth Amendment protections as data stored in the physical world.




this is ludicrous


It reminds me of them saying that the 1st amendment applies to online speech.

Why would one be ok but the other not?


Because the left is very good at controlling what can be heard via one type of speech and not by the other.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 12:47 pm to
quote:

Actually, anyone who is a citizen of the United States is subject to the laws of the United States wherever in the world they are.


You are certifiable.

Do you understand the concepts of jurisdiction and extradition?
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36128 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 12:55 pm to
quote:


Do you understand the concepts of jurisdiction and extradition?


Who is being extradited?
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
62850 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 12:56 pm to
Wouldn't the proper steps be to request the Irish government to obtain the data using their means, and giving it to the US government? Similar to if they wanted to "process" a person in another country?

I understand the slippery slope of a company not having to comply with information requests because that data is stored overseas, especially these days, but what is the administration going to do if Microsoft says no?
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
47589 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 12:56 pm to
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
94857 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 12:57 pm to
quote:




Someone set us up the bomb. Main screen turn on.
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
35362 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 1:02 pm to
These are e-mails that Microsoft is obligated to provide. They can't get out of that obligation by putting their servers in another country. Otherwise every regulated industry (and some government agencies) would switch to overseas hosting of e-mails.

Posted by Jim Ignatowski
Louisiana
Member since Jul 2013
1383 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 1:04 pm to
quote:

Actually, anyone who is a citizen of the United States is subject to the laws of the United States wherever in the world they are.


....now if only the Administration would surrender the e-mails they have been ordered to surrender (IRS=Obama Adm.)
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
47589 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 1:05 pm to
quote:

Someone set us up the bomb. Main screen turn on.


You have no chance to survive make your time.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 1:05 pm to
quote:

Who is being extradited?


The U.S. citizens you said were subject to U.S. law wherever they were in the world.

Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 1:06 pm to
quote:

Otherwise every regulated industry (and some government agencies) would switch to overseas hosting of e-mails.


Or, they could have all of their hard drives crash. All at the same time. Conveniently.

Just saying.
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73424 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 1:08 pm to
quote:

Or, they could have all of their hard drives crash. All at the same time. Conveniently.
Crazier things have happened right?
Posted by AUin02
Member since Jan 2012
4280 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 1:08 pm to
quote:

the US government said that content stored online doesn't enjoy the same type of Fourth Amendment protections as data stored in the physical world.


NSA loves this kind of ruling. Good God.
Posted by themunch
Earth. maybe
Member since Jan 2007
64590 posts
Posted on 7/15/14 at 1:11 pm to
but not emails
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