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Started By
Message
Do you think Americans are bad at distinguishing between needs and wants?
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:32 pm
I think one of the biggest downsides of consumerism is that it distorts people's ability to differentiate between necessities and wants. This is at least partially why we have crises in a few major markets. People are treating health insurance, housing costs, etc as less important than TVs, good computers, phones, certain food, equipment, etc.
I was reading an article the other day about the Detroit water fiasco, and their case study was a 450 pound woman. In the picture, I could see in the background a nice tv, expensive looking cooking equipment, and other unnecessary goods.
It's certainly not the only, or even the main, reason for these crises, but I think many people find themselves unable to afford basic and vital needs such as insurance and water bills because money they should be paying for these needs are going to wants that, quite frankly, are not nearly as important.
I was reading an article the other day about the Detroit water fiasco, and their case study was a 450 pound woman. In the picture, I could see in the background a nice tv, expensive looking cooking equipment, and other unnecessary goods.
It's certainly not the only, or even the main, reason for these crises, but I think many people find themselves unable to afford basic and vital needs such as insurance and water bills because money they should be paying for these needs are going to wants that, quite frankly, are not nearly as important.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:35 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
It could be easily argued that insurance is not a need.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:36 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
No, wants drive the economy. Wants push society forward. Europeans are utilitarian and they're poor, unsophisticated and trending towards decline.
The obese tat covered woman with an xbox hooked up to a big screen complaining about not bein able to pay her water bill is not an accurate depiction of the typical American.
Excess, desire and individual responsibility creates prosperity where as poverty is the natural state of man.
The obese tat covered woman with an xbox hooked up to a big screen complaining about not bein able to pay her water bill is not an accurate depiction of the typical American.
Excess, desire and individual responsibility creates prosperity where as poverty is the natural state of man.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:36 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
extremely
It all comes down to what it's worth to you.
As long as I wasn't starving, I would sacrifice food for internet access at home.
Detroit water is a special situation, though. Detroit created the situation by allowing people to keep their water without paying their bill. If you do that long enough, people are going to stop paying and adjust their life style accordingly. Basically, Detroit spent so long threatening to cut off water without doing so that people began to assume that they never would. When they finally did, the people went ape-shite because they knew that if they made a big enough stink, they would get their water back while still not paying for it.
It all comes down to what it's worth to you.
As long as I wasn't starving, I would sacrifice food for internet access at home.
Detroit water is a special situation, though. Detroit created the situation by allowing people to keep their water without paying their bill. If you do that long enough, people are going to stop paying and adjust their life style accordingly. Basically, Detroit spent so long threatening to cut off water without doing so that people began to assume that they never would. When they finally did, the people went ape-shite because they knew that if they made a big enough stink, they would get their water back while still not paying for it.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:37 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I agree. People don't generally prioritize well in the "wants vs. needs" category. The problem I have is when others are forced to provide for those who don't make that distinction for themselves.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:37 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Americans have no problem buying the things they want, but expect government to buy them the things they need.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:39 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
It started with the Boomers and went into overdrive with Facebook. Keeping up with the Jones is now a necessity.
Trips, clothes, cars, swimming pools, season tickets to LSU and Saints football games are now a necessity. Partying hardcore for every single holiday? A necessity.
Healthcare? Government should pay for that.
ETA: Saving for retirement? Worry about that later.
Trips, clothes, cars, swimming pools, season tickets to LSU and Saints football games are now a necessity. Partying hardcore for every single holiday? A necessity.
Healthcare? Government should pay for that.
ETA: Saving for retirement? Worry about that later.
This post was edited on 7/7/14 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:40 pm to DelU249
quote:
Europeans are utilitarian and they're poor, unsophisticated and trending towards decline.
europeans are far from poor.
I agree with the rest. Also a want vs. a need will differ among the population and over time. was a cell phone a need 10 years ago? Probably not. is it a need now? for most of the population yes.
if you look at society as static, you are going to end up being very angry.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:41 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I NEED for someone to buy me the things I WANT!
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:41 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
europeans are far from poor.
This. Just because they drive smaller cars, live in smaller homes, and don't watch as much cable TV doesn't make them poor.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:44 pm to DelU249
quote:What the frick are you talking about?
Europeans are utilitarian and they're poor, unsophisticated and trending towards decline.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:44 pm to FooManChoo
But that's a result of a collective, big brother mindset. America at its purest is desires, choices and prosperity. When we remove the consequences of poor individual choices we have that woman in Detroit. Western society is trending towards the idea that people shouldn't pay for their mistakes.
There's tons of shite I want and buy, capitalism and basic economics is about tradeoffs, but we now provide a huge net for those making poor ones encouraging them to keep making them, and despite this piss poor social policy, we still have that Detroit woman complaining. Water isn't expensive, there shouldn't have been a big tradeoff every month to pay your bill. She just kept making the same shite decision month after month to arrive to the point where she doesn't have water an has a 4 figure bill. Had she not been encouraged month after month to do that, she'd prioritize have most everything she wants and have water
There's tons of shite I want and buy, capitalism and basic economics is about tradeoffs, but we now provide a huge net for those making poor ones encouraging them to keep making them, and despite this piss poor social policy, we still have that Detroit woman complaining. Water isn't expensive, there shouldn't have been a big tradeoff every month to pay your bill. She just kept making the same shite decision month after month to arrive to the point where she doesn't have water an has a 4 figure bill. Had she not been encouraged month after month to do that, she'd prioritize have most everything she wants and have water
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:47 pm to DelU249
It's a tragic irony that capitalism may very well lead to the destruction of free markets in fields like healthcare, as capitalism has made so many non vital goods available to the masses
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:51 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
It's a tragic irony that capitalism may very well lead to the destruction of free markets in fields like healthcare, as capitalism has made so many non vital goods available to the masses
Shh...nobody tell him that it's the government, not the free market that's doing that
Posted on 7/7/14 at 1:51 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
We are a spoiled country who feels our needs should be free.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:04 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
europeans are far from poor.
In terms of western society, most of them are. Money spent drives an economy, as bad of shape as we're in (our unemployment figures are bogus as the participation rate is piss poor)we've still yet to decline to the level of European countries. Switzerland still retains its economic freeedoms, but mostly Europe is comparably poor. Spain is at 26% unemployment, 50% of germans with full time employment live below the European poverty line, and on and on. Not to mention the shite for brains economic policies (FRANCE is a god damn catastrophe) It is cultural. They see the laborers as being exploited, they see the laborers (not the creators) as the driving force of the economy. they're very necessity driven, thus they spend less money (spending money is kind of important in terms of growing GDP)
I know most people who travel to Europe don't bother going outside the designated areas for tourists (which are far nicer living conditions than the rest of the cities have) so I understand that my saying they're poor is absurd in the minds of almost everyone (and globally speaking it is; however, I don't hold some of the most developed countries to the standard of Uganda.) Europe is trending downwards, and compared to where we are...P-O-O-R. So I admittedly agree they aren't poor in the grand scheme of things, compared to how we have it, there is a massive misconception. We, Americans, would identify such conditions as poverty.
back to the OP, we have a segment of our population that doesn't prioritize (make appropriate tradeoffs) well, but generally speaking our wants and desires have produced the highest standard of living in the history of the world. Show me another country where the poorest of poor is front and center with a big screen tv, xbox, expensive tats, designer nails, and morbidly obese (i.e. more than well fed)
POOR
decidedly less POOR
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:13 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
the capitalist will sell you the rope that you'll use to hang him...however, that is not the downfall of free markets
regulation, government assistance...the corruption of free market principles is and will be responsible. It no longer is a perversion, it is a common mindset amongst people that capitalism doesn't work. I find that disappointing. The arguments against capitalism are all examples of the perversion of capitalism. You cannot point to a free market uninterrupted, even past a downturn, not working to society's benefit. Of course you must have the correct elements in place (property rights and the means to protect them), and early industrialization is a bitch that I am grateful my ancestors trudged through so that I can enjoy the life I do now.
sounds dramatic but it is true. wanting things we don't need is what frees us from poverty. So we need to want more, and remove the safety net for people who do not make sensible tradeoffs so that they may learn from their mistakes. Not only do they learn, but everyone else does as well.
"yay capitalism"
regulation, government assistance...the corruption of free market principles is and will be responsible. It no longer is a perversion, it is a common mindset amongst people that capitalism doesn't work. I find that disappointing. The arguments against capitalism are all examples of the perversion of capitalism. You cannot point to a free market uninterrupted, even past a downturn, not working to society's benefit. Of course you must have the correct elements in place (property rights and the means to protect them), and early industrialization is a bitch that I am grateful my ancestors trudged through so that I can enjoy the life I do now.
sounds dramatic but it is true. wanting things we don't need is what frees us from poverty. So we need to want more, and remove the safety net for people who do not make sensible tradeoffs so that they may learn from their mistakes. Not only do they learn, but everyone else does as well.
"yay capitalism"
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