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Started By
Message
Ad Valorem (property tax) elimination
Posted on 6/12/14 at 7:39 pm
Posted on 6/12/14 at 7:39 pm
What does the Money board say?
What brings this question up is Thad Cochran's campaign here in MS is bringing up the fact that Chris McDaniel sponsored a bill, SB2444, that would require the Department of Revenue to do a feasibility study on eliminating Ad Valerom tax.
My questions are; what would be the purpose of this? What sort of tax would replace it (because God knows that taxes are 1 of 2 things certain in life)? And, is this a libertarian or tea party ideal?
Let's keep this to just property tax, personal and real, and car tags. It's a bundle deal I believe, can't have one without the other.
Let me know if I need to take this to Poli board.
TIA
What brings this question up is Thad Cochran's campaign here in MS is bringing up the fact that Chris McDaniel sponsored a bill, SB2444, that would require the Department of Revenue to do a feasibility study on eliminating Ad Valerom tax.
My questions are; what would be the purpose of this? What sort of tax would replace it (because God knows that taxes are 1 of 2 things certain in life)? And, is this a libertarian or tea party ideal?
Let's keep this to just property tax, personal and real, and car tags. It's a bundle deal I believe, can't have one without the other.
Let me know if I need to take this to Poli board.
TIA
3
Posted on 6/12/14 at 9:26 pm to TaxmanMSU
Just raise sales taxes. But everyone will say it's just a tax on the lower class.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 9:29 pm to Golfer
Agreed.
Another question. Can you think of a more fair taxing system than ad valorem? Everyone is taxed at the same rate per jurisdiction, based on the value of your property, determined by the market which is (ideally) determined by the public itself.
Another question. Can you think of a more fair taxing system than ad valorem? Everyone is taxed at the same rate per jurisdiction, based on the value of your property, determined by the market which is (ideally) determined by the public itself.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 9:40 pm to TaxmanMSU
quote:
Can you think of a more fair taxing system than ad valorem?
Many feel that property tax basically puts a tax on living. You are just renting the property you're living on from the govt.
I would think property tax and sales taxes affect the poor equally unless their is a tax break on the sale of food.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 9:49 pm to TaxmanMSU
quote:In Louisiana the property value assessments are almost universally unfair. There are frequent horror stories about how next door neighbors houses are valued vastly different in spite of the properties being nearly identical in size and age.
Can you think of a more fair taxing system than ad valorem? Everyone is taxed at the same rate per jurisdiction, based on the value of your property,
Two weeks ago it was discovered by the newly elected assessor in Ascension Parish that an entire subdivision's last filing was never added to the property tax rolls. He discovered it because he was comparing assessed properties on the books to Google Earth photos. OOPS!
Posted on 6/12/14 at 10:10 pm to TaxmanMSU
There are two knocks against property taxes, in my opinion.
1) Appraised value is a very subjective area. It can be easily influenced, if not outright manipulated. In Texas, there is an entire industry dedicated to combating appraisals. In Louisiana, it is well known that the appraisal system in most parishes is an absolute joke. It's a hard sell to pay taxes based upon what an appraiser thinks your house is worth... when the only true "valuation" of a house is an actual sale.
2) In a market with rising property values, since all of that value growth is "paper", homeowners can become priced out of their own homes.
That having been said... property taxes are probably the most stable form of taxation out there. Sales taxes tend to be highly regressive. I would presume, then, a property tax cut would result in higher income taxes... which brings with it another set of problems.
1) Appraised value is a very subjective area. It can be easily influenced, if not outright manipulated. In Texas, there is an entire industry dedicated to combating appraisals. In Louisiana, it is well known that the appraisal system in most parishes is an absolute joke. It's a hard sell to pay taxes based upon what an appraiser thinks your house is worth... when the only true "valuation" of a house is an actual sale.
2) In a market with rising property values, since all of that value growth is "paper", homeowners can become priced out of their own homes.
That having been said... property taxes are probably the most stable form of taxation out there. Sales taxes tend to be highly regressive. I would presume, then, a property tax cut would result in higher income taxes... which brings with it another set of problems.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 10:20 pm to LSUFanHouston
I honestly like paying property taxes over other forms because it's fairly straightforward compared to others. I just struggle with the fundamental thinking of taxing things you need to live (housing and food)
Posted on 6/12/14 at 10:22 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
In Texas, there is an entire industry dedicated to combating appraisals.
What resources would be needed to challenge appraisals in LA? The company I work for pays a third party 10's of thousands a year to challenge property tax appraisals in a fairly specialized field(medical equipment). They get 45% of the savings + a flat fee for each filing.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 11:02 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
pays a third party 10's of thousands a year to challenge property tax appraisals in a fairly specialized field(medical equipment). They get 45% of the savings + a flat fee for each filing
Are you talking about equipment/inventory or real estate?
Posted on 6/12/14 at 11:07 pm to Bill Parker?
Personal property. High $ medical equipment that they challenge the appraised value of and take their % of the savings.
This post was edited on 6/12/14 at 11:09 pm
Posted on 6/12/14 at 11:17 pm to TaxmanMSU
Georgia is phasing out ad valorem tag tax.
It is being replaced with a one time sales tax.
Early murmors have been favorable.
(Revenues are up, people don't have to pay ad valorem annually, and there may be opportunities to finance the sales tax if money down is an issue).
But I don't know how flipping cars works under this system.
It is considered a short term win. But we will have to see the long term effects.
It is being replaced with a one time sales tax.
Early murmors have been favorable.
(Revenues are up, people don't have to pay ad valorem annually, and there may be opportunities to finance the sales tax if money down is an issue).
But I don't know how flipping cars works under this system.
It is considered a short term win. But we will have to see the long term effects.
Posted on 6/13/14 at 6:15 am to TaxmanMSU
I can't think of a more unfair tax than property tax.
You never really own your property if you're forced to pay taxes on it every year.
You never really own your property if you're forced to pay taxes on it every year.
Posted on 6/13/14 at 6:20 am to I Love Bama
quote:
You never really own your property if you're forced to pay taxes on it every year.
Your property isn't worth very much if the road leading to it is crumbling and the sewer pipe has collapsed and there is no fire or police department to answer your call for help. That pretty much describes Detroit where you can't give property away.
Posted on 6/13/14 at 10:28 am to meansonny
quote:
(Revenues are up, people don't have to pay ad valorem annually, and there may be opportunities to finance the sales tax if money down is an issue).
But I don't know how flipping cars works under this system.
It's partially due to people jumping on the lower rates the first few years. My wife's car, after we paid sales tax in 2012, we opted in to include the sales tax + a tiny one time premium of like $52 to cover all future ad valorem. People buying cars from individuals will definitely be affected as that was a focus of the change as well. If people trade their cars after 3-4 years the future upcharge to sales/advalorem burden will get expensive quickly and the DOR is uncertain what the longer term revenue effect will be.
I dislike property tax, especially on rental property. I have found the county to be reasonable on primary residence appraisal valuation challenges when presented with facts, rental property forget it. OTOH, you do get preferential Fed tax treatment upon sales of primary and investment property.
I really dislike what amounts to a flat state income tax in GA and if you are early retired you can't can't benefit from the exclusions offered to 62-65 year old residents regarding investment and other retirement income. It's like people don't believe in reverse age discrimination.
Posted on 6/13/14 at 10:40 am to Boomshockalocka
quote:
What resources would be needed to challenge appraisals in LA? The company I work for pays a third party 10's of thousands a year to challenge property tax appraisals in a fairly specialized field(medical equipment). They get 45% of the savings + a flat fee for each filing.
I'm not sure there is any law here in LA that prevents agents from acting on behalf of property owners when it comes to fighting appraisals.
Generally, real property is valued every 4 years here, with personal property every 2 years. In Texas, real property undergoes a full appraisal every 2 years, with a more mathmatical adjustment in the other years.
I would think knowledge of what you are doing, along with malpractice insurance, would be what you would need to get started.
Posted on 6/13/14 at 6:07 pm to LSUFanHouston
Yeah, appraisals can be pretty tricky. New house= you get charged what you spent on it. Older house= you get charged what you paid for it, which can be way higher than what it's worth.
The appeals process is simple in MS. The first Monday in July, the rolls are produced for public inspection. This is the time to go check our your value. If you can't talk with the appraiser and work something out (see how it gets inconsistent now? The squeaky wheel gets the grease) then your option is to appeal your value before the Board of Supervisors in August. They will review your case but usually they go with whatever the appraiser says. But in many cases I've seen they will help the individual (it's all about who you know, and if they know you).
Yeah there is are guys that make serious bank representing commercial property owners on getting an assessment lowered.
For me it's all about fairness, if you have a legitimate arguement then go talk to the Assessor's office. But the thing in MS is that most people's property are well below their market value. So they don't have a gripe with the Assessor. It's the Board of Supervisors that doesn't lower the tax rate when more value comes in is what is killer. That, and School Boards that take the maximum tax rate hike they can take every year no matter what the value is. School Boards are really the ones running wild with their budgets.
The appeals process is simple in MS. The first Monday in July, the rolls are produced for public inspection. This is the time to go check our your value. If you can't talk with the appraiser and work something out (see how it gets inconsistent now? The squeaky wheel gets the grease) then your option is to appeal your value before the Board of Supervisors in August. They will review your case but usually they go with whatever the appraiser says. But in many cases I've seen they will help the individual (it's all about who you know, and if they know you).
Yeah there is are guys that make serious bank representing commercial property owners on getting an assessment lowered.
For me it's all about fairness, if you have a legitimate arguement then go talk to the Assessor's office. But the thing in MS is that most people's property are well below their market value. So they don't have a gripe with the Assessor. It's the Board of Supervisors that doesn't lower the tax rate when more value comes in is what is killer. That, and School Boards that take the maximum tax rate hike they can take every year no matter what the value is. School Boards are really the ones running wild with their budgets.
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