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Started By
Message
Had a fascinating reply on Facebook to the $15 min wage
Posted on 6/8/14 at 10:19 am
Posted on 6/8/14 at 10:19 am
quote:
Enough with the bullshite, time for a little Econ. 101! Business owners DO NOT create jobs! Jobs are created by having a product or service, needed and/ or wanted by by people with the means to afford it. This is an indisputable FACT! If the people that NEED a product or service that you have to offer but are unable to afford it, they WILL NOT purchase, therefore you, as a business, are NOT! Most (certainly not all) large corporations operate with annual net profit margins above 18% with some approaching 25%. This is also an indisputable FACT! Most (certainly not all) CEO's, CFO's, etc. of large corporations currently earn in excess of 100 times the average employee of any given corporation while contributing very little to real market value and finding creative ways to pass blame downwards. This is in direct contrast to the history of the largest expansion in consumers when the typical top manager was paid approximately 10 times the average employee and blame was accepted for failure. Most midsized and smaller companies have taken the same tact with regards to financials as their larger brethren but without the same tax breaks. Small companies suffer from this law, the remediation is to band together and fight the large corporation, not to blame Joe for trying to support his family after multiple layoffs with minimum wage all that is left. Is $15.25 too much, possibly? Is $7.25 too low, obviously. The interesting thing is had minimum wage been pegged to inflation it would currently be $15.75. Had it been indexed to productivity it would be $20.45. Perhaps looking at countries like Switzerland and Germany with better social programs, higher wages and yes, higher cost of living and higher taxes but ultimately more stable economies would enter into your thought processess.
Have fun with it
This post was edited on 6/8/14 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 6/8/14 at 10:23 am to Zahrim
quote:
Business owners DO NOT create jobs!
awesome
Posted on 6/8/14 at 10:24 am to Zahrim
quote:
Most (certainly not all) large corporations operate with annual net profit margins above 18% with some approaching 25%.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 10:26 am to Taxing Authority
I don't get why employees that feel underpaid don't just start their own business.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 10:27 am to Zahrim
quote:
when the typical top manager was paid approximately 10 times the average employee and blame was accepted for failure
This is the only thing I kinda agree with. It pisses me off when I see C-level executives run a business or division of it into the ground and then get replaced in 3 years with a $12 million severance package. But hey, if the business is willing to pony it up, then whatever, I guess.
This post was edited on 6/8/14 at 10:28 am
Posted on 6/8/14 at 10:38 am to UGATiger26
When you say "run a business", you are referencing Fortune 500 companies. Not just any business.
The demand for top talent at CEO is much like the demand for top HC talent in the SEC. The top prospects are lured to their places of business with these incentive packages.
If you work for or own stock in that Fortune 500 company, I understand your disgust. But the hindsight question is always, "Who should they have hired and would that compensation package be much different?"
And that's where the silence begins.
If you don't work for those companies or don't own stock in them, just smile. When Tennessee screws the pooch with their coaching staff, it makes me smile.
The demand for top talent at CEO is much like the demand for top HC talent in the SEC. The top prospects are lured to their places of business with these incentive packages.
If you work for or own stock in that Fortune 500 company, I understand your disgust. But the hindsight question is always, "Who should they have hired and would that compensation package be much different?"
And that's where the silence begins.
If you don't work for those companies or don't own stock in them, just smile. When Tennessee screws the pooch with their coaching staff, it makes me smile.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 10:40 am to Zahrim
quote:Even if an employer produces a novel product or service, or improves upon it's production, and creates demand that did not previously exist, and isn't simply responding to existing demand, they're doing so because they anticipated demand for it, no? Doesn't demand dictate everything?
Enough with the bullshite, time for a little Econ. 101! Business owners DO NOT create jobs! Jobs are created by having a product or service, needed and/ or wanted by by people with the means to afford it.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 10:42 am to C
quote:Exactly. If the owner contributes nothing, just DIY.
I don't get why employees that feel underpaid don't just start their own business.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 10:44 am to Zed
quote:Nope. Increased demand for consumer good made in China does very little for economic growth. That why most "stimulus" and wage increases fail to produce increases in GDP.
Doesn't demand dictate everything?
Posted on 6/8/14 at 10:46 am to Zahrim
quote:
Perhaps looking at countries like Switzerland and Germany...
Tell that fricking dunce that NEITHER of those countries have min wage laws in effect.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 11:01 am to stuntman
I wonder where he was taught the "Ecom 101".
Posted on 6/8/14 at 11:15 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
Most (certainly not all) large corporations operate with annual net profit margins above 18% with some approaching 25%.
Does this include the ones that declare bankruptcy?
Posted on 6/8/14 at 11:22 am to whodemlsu
Germany and Switzerland don't even have minimum wages
Posted on 6/8/14 at 11:27 am to goldennugget
Are people not free to find better paying jobs? Are they not able to freely quit jobs they feel are undercompensated? Minimum wage would only be needed if labor was forced.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 11:53 am to SmackoverHawg
My reply to him which I made before I started this thread...
quote:
Econ 101, yes. Not Keynenisan Econ. We will look at a restaurant model since this is what the law in Sea-Tac directly impacts and as a Chef for over 23 years something I am well versed in. A restaurant has a fairly standard model for its pricing and costing. 30% Labor Cost; 30% Food Cost (fast food is 20-25); 20-25% for upkeep, utilities, rent, taxes outside of sales tax and if a franchise the franchise fee and any other bank notes; The rest is profit.
These wages are Colorado wages based off of Colorado Minimum Wage and non fast food:
Dishwashers (unskilled position) make minimum wage and get raises from there based on performance and longevity with the restaurant.
Prep Cooks get 8 to 9 (unskilled position) Experience dependent.
Line cooks start at $10 per hour but depending on the skill and experience of the cook can start as high as $12 per hour.
Hourly cooks CAP at $14 per hour. Once you hit the $14 to $16 area you are an hourly manager in the kitchen assisting the Chef and Sous Chef (salaried management).
If everyone is moved to $15 What do you think will happen to the labor cost? It goes up.
If labor costs goes up what do you think will happen to the menu pricing? It goes up.
This model is used on the corporate restaurant level and small business level. Expect to see your lobster dinner at red lobster to go up or your Chicken Alfredo at Olive Garden. If you think Raising the minimum wage will not do this you are a fool. If you think this will not shutter businesses and cause people to loose their jobs you are a fool. Our economy is exceptionally weak and one of the reasons it is weak is because many people cannot find full time jobs and are forced to take part time jobs and many of them are minimum wage jobs. The job participation levels are lower now than they were under Carter. Increasing costs for the employer will mean a cutting of jobs and increased prices. That is basic Supply and Demand Economics. Increasing wages will do nothing more than devalue the Dollar further, just look at countries like Italy that did this sort of foolishness and look at the "value" of the Lira (a coke cost 50K Lira in 1991 when I was there) before they joined the EU and a fat lot of good that did them, they are continuing to go bankrupt.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 12:08 pm to Dead End
There's also a misconception that labor is somehow responsible for the success of the business and owners/managers are just the evil recipients of their rewards. My business is only successful because of me. You can remove any employee I have and shite don't change. You remove me, and it closes. Same with my wife's business. Now if we happen to make more money, and it requires no further work by our employees, why are they entitled to money I earned and they did not? If they feel they are justly compensated, why should a third party tell me what to pay them? The can haul arse anytime they please. And am I not supposed to profit from my risks, ideas, and investment? This people had zero risk, zero input on starting the businesses, and zero investment. That's like someone having to pay me part of the interest they make on investments just because I want some. Maybe we have the money because we're smarted and understand this. And because we go get it and make shite happen instead of waiting around with our hand out waiting for the money fairy to drop her load in it. F#$king dumbasses.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 1:19 pm to Zahrim
quote:
Had a fascinating reply on Facebook to the $15 m in wage
quote:What a difference a space makes. I was like when I first read this.
Had a fascinating reply on Facebook to the $15 min wage
quote:Please lets index the minimum wage this time around so we don't have this argument every other year.
The interesting thing is had minimum wage been pegged to inflation it would currently be $15.75
Posted on 6/8/14 at 2:04 pm to mmcgrath
How bout increased minimum wage for people that have been employed at the same place for a minimum of say 5yrs? Would reward those employees and wouldn't created a barrier to entry level positions. They are some people whose top end achievement is a minimum wage job. Yes, it would be nice for these to get a "living wage", but is that not what welfare, food stamps, and subsidized housing is for? I'm all for a $15 minimum wage if I can get a 10% decrease in income tax and massive cuts to entitlements.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 2:15 pm to Zahrim
If consumer spending creates jobs, why not just give everyone 700 trillion dollars?
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