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Started By
Message
Yet another attack on guns this time hidden in "medical ethics"
Posted on 3/31/14 at 11:33 am
Posted on 3/31/14 at 11:33 am
quote:
Is Gun Violence a Public Health Problem?
Hi. I am Art Caplan at the Division of Medical Ethics at the New York University (NYU) Langone Medical Center. Is gun violence a public health problem? If you ask the National Rifle Association (NRA), they say no. They are up in arms because the candidate that President Obama put forward for the office of Surgeon General, a physician at Harvard named Vivek Murthy, has spoken out a number of times about gun violence and about the need for medicine in public health to do more about this huge problem in the United States. The NRA says that he's just playing politics -- it isn't really a science issue; it isn't a health issue. I think the NRA is flat-out wrong.
There is a huge problem with guns in the United States, and there are many things that public health can do, and many things that doctors should do to try to minimize the threats that guns pose to children, families, and all of us. One of the leading problems with guns is that we don't educate children to know what to do when they find a gun or see a gun. So, if a 5- or 6-year-old sees a gun, we need a program that teaches that child that if you see a gun, walk away, get out of the area, and then tell an adult. That is a public health program. It's something that school nurses could do. It's something that pediatricians should talk about with their child patients. It's something that families should hear about. We need a campaign. Vivek Murthy, the Surgeon General candidate, thinks that it is an appropriate thing to do. Apparently, the NRA doesn't.
Let's switch over to another problem with guns: suicide. One thing you have to ask patients is whether they own guns and whether they know how to keep them safely. Do you keep ammunition stored separately from the guns? Just as we might say, "Lock your medicine chest so that kids don't get in there and steal medicines," locking up your ammunition and your guns is a way to promote safety around gun ownership. That, to me, is public health that is established by science as sound policy, and one that we can use to diminish gun violence and gun accidents. Probably the biggest area in which guns are absolutely a public health challenge is suicide. Suicide is now killing more people in the United States than car accidents. It's a major cause of death for young people. What do we do about it as doctors? What do we do about it in terms of public health approaches?
Involving Gun Shop Owners in Safe Gun Ownership
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An interesting program that has been tried in New Hampshire is to teach gun shop owners and people who own shooting ranges not to sell guns to people who are suicidal or emotionally despondent. You might think, "Don't they know that?" No. No one has actually discussed it with them. No one has told them how to pick up some of the signs that someone might be distraught. No one tells them what hotline number to give to a person they are worried about or how to contact a counselor or religious leader. They are not prepared to respond if they are concerned about a person who says, "I want to buy a gun."
Nearly every suicide in which somebody buys a gun takes place within 3 days after the purchase of the weapon. That is a public health problem in which people who favor gun use and favor owning guns can participate. The people in New Hampshire -- more than half of the gun shop dealers and those who own gun ranges who are involved with the program -- are proud of it. The NRA may not like it, but those who are at the front lines of using guns safely and promoting safe gun ownership understand that it is a public health program, and they think they have done a lot of good by trying to handle this suicide threat and manage it in a more intelligent way.
Politics are being played with the gun issue, but I don't think it is medicine. I think it's the NRA, and on this one, it's worth standing up and saying that guns are a public health problem. We could use a Surgeon General who will speak about guns, and we need a lot more doctors and nurses who will start to promote gun safety as part of their practice. I'm Art Caplan from the NYU Langone Medical Center. Thanks for watching.
This was posted on Medscape which is a subscription only website for physicians. The comment section from physicians outraged at this ignorant man is rapidly filling.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 11:37 am to Bleeding purple
quote:
Let's switch over to another problem with guns: suicide
Because only guns are used in suicides
Posted on 3/31/14 at 11:38 am to Bleeding purple
They should be outraged with that idiot.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 11:44 am to Bleeding purple
Thanks for waking me up and raising my blood pressure.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I have a small problem here.
I personally think suicide is a cheap way out of dealing with problems. But, we live in a free country and if a person wants to commit suicide, that is his or her prerogative. If the person can be helped and just needs support, that is one thing, but sometimes things just can't be prevented. And to blame it on guns is the cheapest cop-out ever. Someone could just as easily jump off a building or use a noose.
I also hate how the left has now stolen the term "gun safety" meaning that legislation should be passed to make them feel safer.
I have grown up to know gun safety is the 4 commandments. I definitely don't need some horseshite doctor who has never held a gun in his life to tell me what it is.
quote:
Suicide is now killing more people in the United States than car accidents.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I have a small problem here.
I personally think suicide is a cheap way out of dealing with problems. But, we live in a free country and if a person wants to commit suicide, that is his or her prerogative. If the person can be helped and just needs support, that is one thing, but sometimes things just can't be prevented. And to blame it on guns is the cheapest cop-out ever. Someone could just as easily jump off a building or use a noose.
quote:
but those who are at the front lines of using guns safely and promoting safe gun ownership understand that it is a public health program
I also hate how the left has now stolen the term "gun safety" meaning that legislation should be passed to make them feel safer.
I have grown up to know gun safety is the 4 commandments. I definitely don't need some horseshite doctor who has never held a gun in his life to tell me what it is.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 11:46 am to Bleeding purple
quote:
One of the leading problems with guns is that we don't educate children to know what to do when they find a gun or see a gun.
That sounds like his problem. My daughter is 2.5, and she knows what a gun is. Every time she sees one on tv or me putting one back in our safe after a hunting trip, she starts saying "Gun, daddy. That's a gun!".
I explain that they are not toys and when the time comes I will teach her how to use one responsibly. I think she is truly excited about the opportunity...
quote:
It's something that school nurses could do. It's something that pediatricians should talk about with their child patients. It's something that families should hear about. We need a campaign. Vivek Murthy, the Surgeon General candidate, thinks that it is an appropriate thing to do. Apparently, the NRA doesn't.
Or, I don't know... parents could do. To say the NRA doesn't think gun safety is appropriate is straight bull shite.
I've got to stop. This is making me upset.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 11:50 am to Bleeding purple
quote:
One of the leading problems with guns is that we don't educate children to know what to do when they find a gun or see a gun. So, if a 5- or 6-year-old sees a gun, we need a program that teaches that child that if you see a gun, walk away, get out of the area, and then tell an adult.
Someone should tell them the NRA already has a successful program for this exact thing...Eddie Eagle says hi Link
Posted on 3/31/14 at 11:51 am to Bleeding purple
quote:Uh, that's exactly what the NRA's Eddie the Eagle child safety cartoon teaches...
So, if a 5- or 6-year-old sees a gun, we need a program that teaches that child that if you see a gun, walk away, get out of the area, and then tell an adult.
"Stop! Don't Touch! Leave the are, Tell an adult."
LINK in pertinent part...
Posted on 3/31/14 at 12:04 pm to CoastieGM
a few comments:
quote:
Dr. Kirk Anesthesiology
32 minutes ago
The most recent suicide statistics count slightly less than 20,000 suicides by firearms each year, compared to 34,000 accidental car deaths (and 600 accidental firearms deaths). Some suicides are rational and reasonable. Regardless, it is doubtful making suicide by firearms more difficult, even if this is possible, would reduce those deaths. A suicide with a gun is not a"cry for help", it is a determined attempt to end one's life.
Dr. K S| Anesthesiology
32 minutes ago
Sorry, but I must disagree -- there are many public health issues that are more deadly, including talking or texting while driving. It is my duty to care the patient problems that are within my scope of practice.
My job is not to be a liberal advocate on issues of the day, patients can watch MSNBC for that information.
Dr. richard Cardiology, Interventional
33 minutes ago
If Medscape isn't careful, and if they keep posting leftist, politically charged Viewpoints couched as practice standards, they will lose my support, just as the AMA has. The physician has no duty to perpetuate the nanny state.
Dr. J C| Dermatology, General
34 minutes ago
Shocked that you include this personal drivel on your website. Now puts every past and future comment by this doctor on ethics or any other topic in the "suspicious" and "tainted" category.
Dr. James| Surgery, Vascular
34 minutes ago
We live in a society that blames the guns rather than the criminals. Most of the gun violence we see occurs in "gun-free" zones.
Sure, make it the physician's responsibility to advise people on gun dangers. How long will it be before the first physician is sued for "failure to advise" - maybe five minutes????
What's up with Medscape? This is getting worse than the AMA....and I dumped my membership in the AMA long ago!
Posted on 3/31/14 at 12:37 pm to SpeckledTiger
It's almost like he stole Eddie Eagles Motto.
If you see a gun:
STOP!
Don't Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.
I just sent him an email and he replied in less than a minute from his IPhone.
Arthur.Caplan@nyumc.org
If you see a gun:
STOP!
Don't Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.
I just sent him an email and he replied in less than a minute from his IPhone.
Arthur.Caplan@nyumc.org
Posted on 3/31/14 at 1:00 pm to civiltiger07
quote:
just sent him an email and he replied in less than a minute from his IPhone.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 1:03 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
Bleeding purple
Good to see there are physicians out there not perpetuating this bullshite and sticking up for 2A.
It seems like the most important aspect of anything in life is personal responsibility. That cannot be legislated into a person.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 1:04 pm to civiltiger07
quote:
I just sent him an email and he replied in less than a minute from his IPhone.
C'mon man...copy and paste
Posted on 3/31/14 at 1:07 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
Division of Medical Ethics at the New York University (NYU)
Stopped reading here
Anything that comes out of new york is complete shite
Posted on 3/31/14 at 1:16 pm to Bleeding purple
Mr. Arthur,
I recently read your article on “Is Gun Violence a Public Health Problem?” I have a huge problem with this statement. Your argument has many holes and I won’t spend the time to dispute them all. However, I will take the time to inform you of a huge oversight on your part.
“So, if a 5- or 6-year-old sees a gun, we need a program that teaches that child that if you see a gun, walk away, get out of the area, and then tell an adult.”
I had to laugh when I read the statement above in your article. The NRA has a program called “Eddie Eagle” that does exactly what you said needs to be done. If has educated countless children since 1988! That’s right it has been around for over 25 years. See the link below. It’s almost as if you stole the Eddie Eagle Motto right off their website.
LINK /
Thanks,
civiltiger07
Reply:
Good make every pediatrician use the NRA strategy. They don't. They should. That is sound public health.
Sent from my iPhone
------
You can’t make pediatricians use the Eddie Eagle Program. They do have to know that it exist.
I was just informing you that a program such as Eddie Eagle exist since you didn’t seem to know about it. If you are really worried about Public Safety post another article on Medscape informing the readers that a program such as Eddie Eagle does exist.
Thanks,
civiltiger07
Reply:
No. The answer is to get pediatrician strained and a surgeon general who backs that. And an NRA who does too. See ya
Sent from my iPhone
------
The NRA backs Eddie Eagle 100%. Vivek Murthy’s solution is to ban/restrict firearms and not education.
Thanks,
civiltiger07
Reply:
He favors both.
Sent from my iPhone------
That is exactly why the NRA doesn’t want him to become the Surgeon General. I for one support the NRA opposing this appointment. That is why I’m a proud member.
Also, I am of the belief that firearms in a citizens home is none of the Surgeon General’s business or a pediatricians as well.
Thanks,
civiltiger07
I recently read your article on “Is Gun Violence a Public Health Problem?” I have a huge problem with this statement. Your argument has many holes and I won’t spend the time to dispute them all. However, I will take the time to inform you of a huge oversight on your part.
“So, if a 5- or 6-year-old sees a gun, we need a program that teaches that child that if you see a gun, walk away, get out of the area, and then tell an adult.”
I had to laugh when I read the statement above in your article. The NRA has a program called “Eddie Eagle” that does exactly what you said needs to be done. If has educated countless children since 1988! That’s right it has been around for over 25 years. See the link below. It’s almost as if you stole the Eddie Eagle Motto right off their website.
LINK /
Thanks,
civiltiger07
Reply:
Good make every pediatrician use the NRA strategy. They don't. They should. That is sound public health.
Sent from my iPhone
------
You can’t make pediatricians use the Eddie Eagle Program. They do have to know that it exist.
I was just informing you that a program such as Eddie Eagle exist since you didn’t seem to know about it. If you are really worried about Public Safety post another article on Medscape informing the readers that a program such as Eddie Eagle does exist.
Thanks,
civiltiger07
Reply:
No. The answer is to get pediatrician strained and a surgeon general who backs that. And an NRA who does too. See ya
Sent from my iPhone
------
The NRA backs Eddie Eagle 100%. Vivek Murthy’s solution is to ban/restrict firearms and not education.
Thanks,
civiltiger07
Reply:
He favors both.
Sent from my iPhone------
That is exactly why the NRA doesn’t want him to become the Surgeon General. I for one support the NRA opposing this appointment. That is why I’m a proud member.
Also, I am of the belief that firearms in a citizens home is none of the Surgeon General’s business or a pediatricians as well.
Thanks,
civiltiger07
This post was edited on 3/31/14 at 1:29 pm
Posted on 3/31/14 at 1:18 pm to Bleeding purple
This is what happens when people of no knowledge of a subject make recommendations on it.
I'll bet this quack couldn't tell you which end of the gun the bullets come out of.
The guy who wrote this probably supports obamacare too.
I'll bet this quack couldn't tell you which end of the gun the bullets come out of.
The guy who wrote this probably supports obamacare too.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 1:19 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
Is Gun Violence a Public Health Problem?
quote:
Division of Medical Ethics at the New York University
Posted on 3/31/14 at 1:48 pm to civiltiger07
quote:
civiltiger07
The dude sounds like a complete douche canoe.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 2:18 pm to bapple
quote:
douche canoe
I like that one. Yea your typical New Yorker.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 2:18 pm to civiltiger07
quote:
civiltiger07
well played
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