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The Jrue Holiday Solution
Posted on 2/12/14 at 9:56 am
Posted on 2/12/14 at 9:56 am
I know some on here are down on Jrue and the trade at this point in the season.
The Problem
To be fair, our entire team looked god awful and confused to start the season. I really don't think it's a coincidence that Smith goes down and all of a sudden our offense resembles something at least college level. I love Jason, don't get me wrong, but every single one of our ball handlers fed him that 18 foot shot. I hope he's watching Evans/Rivers PNR with Davis though and realizing that all he has to do with this guy is throw the ball up there. That was my biggest gripe with him to start the season.
Monty also got way too cute thinking that the defensive potential of Jrue/EG/Aminu was greater than the actual basketball IQ/desire of Jrue/EG/Aminu. If we saw Jrue getting to play the defense asked of Roberts/Rivers at this current moment I think we'd see a much different player on that end.
The Solution
Spot up shooters / at least one slasher/cutter at the 2 and 3 spots, preferably a 2 guard that doesn't need the ball on offense to provide the intangibles asked everywhere else on the court (*cough* maybe Rivers? *cough*). I actually greatly like the potential of the Rivers/Jrue pairing with Rivers showing he's actually pretty damn good at catching/shooting for no logical reason at all. A legitimate coach to teach him how to play off ball, set picks, slash to the rim, maybe run guard/guard PnR with Holiday, and shows actual confidence in his ability to catch n shoot.
I'd love a 3 that does nothing but play defense/rebound and run around looking to shoot 3s on offense.
A 5 that shows range to about 12-14 feet so the defense can't completely sag off, rebounds, and bangs down low in the paint.
I think the 3/5 can be had for reasonable values as you aren't asking for a very dynamic skill set.
In short:
OUT - Gordon/Aminu/Smith/Monty
IN - Rivers/Babbitt or Miller/Ajinca/Anybody
Is where I would start post AS break and work from there.
ETA: I've been a Gordon apologist in the past and thought he was going to turn the corner with Holiday/Anderson down. He just honestly looks like he couldn't give a crap less out there and he is, IMO, one of the reasons our starters are beginning to get housed by mediocre teams on a night to night basis.
The Problem
To be fair, our entire team looked god awful and confused to start the season. I really don't think it's a coincidence that Smith goes down and all of a sudden our offense resembles something at least college level. I love Jason, don't get me wrong, but every single one of our ball handlers fed him that 18 foot shot. I hope he's watching Evans/Rivers PNR with Davis though and realizing that all he has to do with this guy is throw the ball up there. That was my biggest gripe with him to start the season.
Monty also got way too cute thinking that the defensive potential of Jrue/EG/Aminu was greater than the actual basketball IQ/desire of Jrue/EG/Aminu. If we saw Jrue getting to play the defense asked of Roberts/Rivers at this current moment I think we'd see a much different player on that end.
The Solution
Spot up shooters / at least one slasher/cutter at the 2 and 3 spots, preferably a 2 guard that doesn't need the ball on offense to provide the intangibles asked everywhere else on the court (*cough* maybe Rivers? *cough*). I actually greatly like the potential of the Rivers/Jrue pairing with Rivers showing he's actually pretty damn good at catching/shooting for no logical reason at all. A legitimate coach to teach him how to play off ball, set picks, slash to the rim, maybe run guard/guard PnR with Holiday, and shows actual confidence in his ability to catch n shoot.
I'd love a 3 that does nothing but play defense/rebound and run around looking to shoot 3s on offense.
A 5 that shows range to about 12-14 feet so the defense can't completely sag off, rebounds, and bangs down low in the paint.
I think the 3/5 can be had for reasonable values as you aren't asking for a very dynamic skill set.
In short:
OUT - Gordon/Aminu/Smith/Monty
IN - Rivers/Babbitt or Miller/Ajinca/Anybody
Is where I would start post AS break and work from there.
ETA: I've been a Gordon apologist in the past and thought he was going to turn the corner with Holiday/Anderson down. He just honestly looks like he couldn't give a crap less out there and he is, IMO, one of the reasons our starters are beginning to get housed by mediocre teams on a night to night basis.
This post was edited on 2/12/14 at 10:00 am
6
Posted on 2/12/14 at 10:06 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
ETA: I've been a Gordon apologist in the past and thought he was going to turn the corner with Holiday/Anderson down. He just honestly looks like he couldn't give a crap less out there and he is, IMO, one of the reasons our starters are beginning to get housed by mediocre teams on a night to night basis.
I don't think Gordon doesn't give a crap. I think the guy is just not that good.
For two years he had nagging knee injuries - relegating him to the sidelines - the dude couldn't pick up a basketball and work on his dribbling during that time?
Sheesh
This post was edited on 2/12/14 at 10:09 am
Posted on 2/12/14 at 10:09 am to MrWiseGuy
I was a Gordon fan too. But I'm gradually starting to go the other way.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 10:17 am to ShamelessPel
Who is down on Jrue and the trade?
Posted on 2/12/14 at 10:22 am to MrWiseGuy
quote:
I don't think Gordon doesn't give a crap. I think the guy is just not that good
This was a golden opportunity for him to step up and be a leader as he is the definitive second option on this team right now.
He's shown none of that and him and Aminu have been taking naps on defense lately leading to wide open looks all over the place.
Good players demand the damn ball and wouldn't allow Roberts to dribble around the perimeter for 15 seconds every possession.
I was actually FOR giving him that contract as his game is downright sick, and the talent level is there. Have you seen some of the fast break outlet passes he's thrown to AD this season? 2/3 length of the court chest passes on a rope that hit AD in stride. Downright amazing. He just gets moody when he isn't getting calls (which is a joke, but still not a reason to disappear).
Posted on 2/12/14 at 10:23 am to Gtothemoney
I'm tired of reading that Eric Gordon doesn't care, the guy goes out and plays hard. Obviously he's lost a step, a step that made him an above average NBA shooting guard. It's his first season playing without jamming on people or executing crossovers without his explosiveness. Is he worse than we thought he would be? Yes. Is he really that bad? Maybe on some nights. But to say he doesn't care... Stop it.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 10:29 am to Lambchops11
quote:
I'm tired of reading that Eric Gordon doesn't care, the guy goes out and plays hard. Obviously he's lost a step, a step that made him an above average NBA shooting guard. It's his first season playing without jamming on people or executing crossovers without his explosiveness. Is he worse than we thought he would be? Yes. Is he really that bad? Maybe on some nights. But to say he doesn't care... Stop it.
he has a max contract, all we heard was he could fall out of bed and give us 20 a night....well i'm still waiting on that
Posted on 2/12/14 at 10:30 am to ShamelessPel
At times, I think Gordon cares. Every other game he goes on a 10 minute spell looking like a player I wouldn't mind having on the roster. When he is in the zone, he's fun to watch. He can shoot, drive, and occasionally throw a nice dime.
When he looks like a kid that got his feelings hurt on the playground, he plays like one. Lazy passes, tunnel vision, loose handle, pouty face. If he feels uninvolved in the offense, he plays selfish, terrible basketball. I think he's just too immature to deal with the pressure of his contract. I wish he would constantly be involved in the offense, but he needs to learn how to consistently play team basketball.
When he looks like a kid that got his feelings hurt on the playground, he plays like one. Lazy passes, tunnel vision, loose handle, pouty face. If he feels uninvolved in the offense, he plays selfish, terrible basketball. I think he's just too immature to deal with the pressure of his contract. I wish he would constantly be involved in the offense, but he needs to learn how to consistently play team basketball.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 10:39 am to Lambchops11
quote:
I'm tired of reading that Eric Gordon doesn't care, the guy goes out and plays hard.
Our bench goes out there and plays hard. Minus Tyreke, we're playing with a bunch of young/out of league/journeyman players and they are beating up on teams lately. They want it more.
The effort we've seen from Aminu and Gordon lately has been pretty bad. Gordon is a frontrunning player. When it's going right, he's right. When the chips are down, he's gonna go sit in a corner and pout. That phrase, shooters keep shooting does not apply to Gordon. He loses confidence or desire (I honestly don't know which) if a couple things go wrong and his play starts to suffer on both ends of the floor in a big way.
At 15m a year, I want my shooters to keep shooting. Plus, he ASKED for this contract. He DEMANDED this contract. We offered him 12-13 and he turned it down. He obviously wants to get paid like a max player, but I just don't see the mindset that says he wants to play like one.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 10:41 am to Cap Crunch
Posted on 2/12/14 at 10:46 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
I've been a Gordon apologist in the past and thought he was going to turn the corner with Holiday/Anderson down. He just honestly looks like he couldn't give a crap less out there
People say this shite because they dont like Gordon, ive flipped flopped on this issue a number of times. But it is a flat out lie to say he doesnt give a shite on the court. He goes out there and gives it his all every single game. Now if you want to say he isnt as talented as he use to be, I can agree with that.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 10:54 am to dj30
quote:
People say this shite because they dont like Gordon, ive flipped flopped on this issue a number of times. But it is a flat out lie to say he doesnt give a shite on the court. He goes out there and gives it his all every single game. Now if you want to say he isnt as talented as he use to be, I can agree with that.
I don't think it's out of line to question Gordon's effort. He is obviously not the player he once was. He doesn't have the speed or explosion and I don't think he is an strong as he used to be. Maybe he is just frustrated that he is limited and has lost confidence. It has to be difficult to re-invent yourself as a player this early in a career. But this is who he is now. He just has to find a niche. He'll never live up to that contract though or come remotely close. That debate is just over..
Posted on 2/12/14 at 10:54 am to ShamelessPel
I can agree with a few things you said but saying he doesn't care is an overstatement. Maybe he does get frustrated, but tbh i'd be frustrated playing with BRoB watching him chuck up jumpers and garbage floaters when I'm spotted up for a 3. Not to mention the offense IS and will be run though AD. So a 15m dollar player, who is second option in an offense that is run by Buggs bunny. Yeah id get frustrated too.
This post was edited on 2/12/14 at 10:55 am
Posted on 2/12/14 at 10:59 am to Lambchops11
Our ideal lineup should be:
Jrue
SG that can shoot the 3
SF that can shoot the 3
Davis
C that can take a pounding and also has a post game
With Ryno and a defensive stopper 2/3 coming off the bench.
We've got some work to do.
Jrue
SG that can shoot the 3
SF that can shoot the 3
Davis
C that can take a pounding and also has a post game
With Ryno and a defensive stopper 2/3 coming off the bench.
We've got some work to do.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 11:06 am to Lambchops11
quote:
I can agree with a few things you said but saying he doesn't care is an overstatement. Maybe he does get frustrated, but tbh i'd be frustrated playing with BRoB watching him chuck up jumpers and garbage floaters when I'm spotted up for a 3. Not to mention the offense IS and will be run though AD. So a 15m dollar player, who is second option in an offense that is run by Buggs bunny. Yeah id get frustrated too.
I have done my best to keep Brob out of this thread
The offense running through Roberts is partly Gordon's fault though. When he doesn't get a touch for 4-6 possessions in a row, he needs to be going over to Roberts and telling him to "get him the *bleepin* ball" and hell I don't even care if he uses that language TBH.
You can't help that people judge Gordon based on the value of his contract. Again, when you demand to be paid the maximum amount of money allowed WITH a player option in year 4 no less, you better show up and act like you at least want to be a max player.
Gordon is the second best player in our starting lineup by a mile, regardless of whether or not he's declined some. Brian Roberts should not have more balls/confidence than Eric Gordon ever. That is the case though.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 11:07 am to Fun Bunch
Jrue/Pierre
Eg/ rivers/morrow
Tyreke/miller/morrow
AD/ryno
Ajinca/jsmoove.
Have aminu and Roberts to get rid of for either a 3 or 5... I don't see what's so bad about this. So young, very dynamic when everyone is healthy.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 11:11 am to ShamelessPel
I can see a situation where some would think that we're "selfish". I won't say any names.............
But overall I agree with you, if he came out more vocal and more aggressive to lead the offense when he is in the floor he would be a better player.
I just want him to be good. He uses to be so good.
But overall I agree with you, if he came out more vocal and more aggressive to lead the offense when he is in the floor he would be a better player.
I just want him to be good. He uses to be so good.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 11:13 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
SG that can shoot the 3
Gordon
quote:
SF that can shoot the 3
Good question
quote:
C that can take a pounding and also has a post game
Lopez
quote:
a defensive stopper 3 coming off the bench
Aminu
I just don't see where Evans fits in any of that, unfortunately. You almost need a complete player next to Evans to give you the shooting Evans needs and make up for the defensive void of Anderson/Evans. We definitely need a couple of moves before we scare anyone.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 11:14 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Jrue
SG that can shoot the 3
SF that can shoot the 3
Davis
C that can take a pounding and also has a post game
Yeah, that's ideal. But there are other good lineups. When Davis isn't in the game, it should be:
Jrue
SG/SF that can shoot the 3
Tyreke
Ryno
Competent 5
We do not and will not utilize Tyreke without two shooters on the floor. Miller/Ryno will work perfectly if we find a decent center.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 11:15 am to ShamelessPel
Our offense sucks and it's leads to plenty of forced shorts and Gordon/Tyreke driving to a clogged lane. We have one of the youngest teams in the league, and we start every possesion with 12 seconds left on the shot clock, throwing the ball to a big man on the elbow who no less than 1 seconds gives it right back to the guard.
Monty's offensive schemes/plays are horrible. With this young team, there should be a ton more movement of the ball and players.
Monty's offensive schemes/plays are horrible. With this young team, there should be a ton more movement of the ball and players.
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