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Does everyone deserve equal rights?
Posted on 2/5/14 at 5:38 am
Posted on 2/5/14 at 5:38 am
If our rights do not come from a creator and are natural rights, should all men's rights be equal? If one believes we come from a Creator and we have eternal souls, than obviously we are unique creations with a particular value. But if we are a random result of nature, we are indeed not created equal and the laws of nature dictate our standing and value.
And as a result wouldn't rights have to be dispensed according to position and skills instead of equally?
Does a person who refuses to work and is a drain on society deserve the right to vote? Does a woman who can't read and is an alcoholic deserve the right to procreate? Should a person who has shown a propensity for violence and is unwilling to depart from a life of crime deserve to live?
This post was edited on 2/5/14 at 5:40 am
Posted on 2/5/14 at 5:45 am to Revelator
Of course, just some are more equal than others...
Posted on 2/5/14 at 5:58 am to Qwerty
quote:
Of course, just some are more equal than others...
More equal > equal
Posted on 2/5/14 at 6:10 am to Revelator
Yes but I think you are addressing the to non believers
These rights are right to life, right to free practice of religion, right to private property (meaning government shouldn't step in a just steal property, it doesn't mean every person should have free property you still have to obtain it for yourself). A couple others I may be forgetting
These rights are right to life, right to free practice of religion, right to private property (meaning government shouldn't step in a just steal property, it doesn't mean every person should have free property you still have to obtain it for yourself). A couple others I may be forgetting
Posted on 2/5/14 at 6:13 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
These rights are right to life, right to free practice of religion, right to private property (meaning government shouldn't step in a just steal property, it doesn't mean every person should have free property you still have to obtain it for yourself). A couple others I may be forgetting
But if our rights derive from nature instead of a creator, shouldn't our system be solely designed to function by survival of the fittest and let those who are weaker die off? Instead we enable the weak to prosper. ( Catholic, you know how I feel about this and I'm simply playing Devil's Advocate)
This post was edited on 2/5/14 at 6:16 am
Posted on 2/5/14 at 6:15 am to Revelator
Rights do not exist in the objective sense, human society does tend to function better when certain rights are preserved.
Posted on 2/5/14 at 6:21 am to HempHead
quote:
Rights do not exist in the objective sense, human society does tend to function better when certain rights are preserved.
Would one of those rights be the right to vote? And should a person who pays no income taxes be allowed to vote to raise such taxes on others?
This post was edited on 2/5/14 at 6:30 am
Posted on 2/5/14 at 6:23 am to Revelator
quote:
More equal > equal
Thanks for the clarification.
Posted on 2/5/14 at 6:30 am to Revelator
quote:
Would one of those rights be the right to vote? And should a person who who pays no income taxes be allowed to vote to raise such taxes on others?
No, I do not think that voting is/should be a right.
Posted on 2/5/14 at 6:33 am to HempHead
quote:
No, I do not think that voting is/should be a right.
So what other rights should be allocated by position?
This post was edited on 2/5/14 at 6:35 am
Posted on 2/5/14 at 6:35 am to Revelator
We should all have the same rights (most essentially, the right of self-ownership). Voting is just not among them, in my opinion.
I am not advocating rights being allocated by position, I'm just against voting and the democratic process in general.
quote:
So what other rights should be allocated by position?
I am not advocating rights being allocated by position, I'm just against voting and the democratic process in general.
This post was edited on 2/5/14 at 6:36 am
Posted on 2/5/14 at 6:43 am to Revelator
Rev I'm going to respond to your point but I have to go for a-little while.
give me an hour or two and I'll give you my response.
give me an hour or two and I'll give you my response.
Posted on 2/5/14 at 6:56 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
Rev I'm going to respond to your point but I have to go for a-little while. give me an hour or two and I'll give you my response.
Sure thing.
Posted on 2/5/14 at 7:06 am to Revelator
If there is no creator then the answer is no. There is no foundation for the value of human life or rights if there is no God.
Posted on 2/5/14 at 7:08 am to CJM18
quote:
If there is no creator then the answer is no. There is no foundation for the value of human life or rights if there is no God.
We share the same view but non believers would try and convince us that nature somehow bestows some special privilege to us that merits rights.
If I didn't believe in a Creator, I could easily be convinced that large portions of humanity don't deserve to live.
This post was edited on 2/5/14 at 7:11 am
Posted on 2/5/14 at 7:10 am to Revelator
quote:
non believers would try and convince us that nature somehow bestows some special privilege to us that merits rights.
Or, as I have said, rights do not objectively exist (neither do morals), but civilization and human happiness tend to excel when certain 'rights' are thought to be innate.
Posted on 2/5/14 at 7:13 am to Revelator
Equal rights yes, equal outcomes no, very much emphatically so. That is just another way of expressing the income disability argument.
Posted on 2/5/14 at 7:22 am to Revelator
Some of the things you listed are rights, while others are not. The right to vote has intrinsic qualifiers. The qualifiers have changed over time. Voting is a good example.
The rights that we do have are rights in relation to each other and to the state, because we are made in the image of God. I don't have more intrinsic value than you because we are both made in God's image. The concept of justice towards each flows from this fact. The state doesn't have the right to do injustice because of this fact. That is the basic nature of these rights, negative rights that prevent oppression and provide freedom/liberty. This is not the same as the so called right to healthcare or phones or housing.
We often though mistake rights towards each other with rights towards our creator. We have no rights with respect to him. He doesn't owe us life, health, success, etc. But we try to legislate equality of outcome because we perceive life to be unfair.
The rights that we do have are rights in relation to each other and to the state, because we are made in the image of God. I don't have more intrinsic value than you because we are both made in God's image. The concept of justice towards each flows from this fact. The state doesn't have the right to do injustice because of this fact. That is the basic nature of these rights, negative rights that prevent oppression and provide freedom/liberty. This is not the same as the so called right to healthcare or phones or housing.
We often though mistake rights towards each other with rights towards our creator. We have no rights with respect to him. He doesn't owe us life, health, success, etc. But we try to legislate equality of outcome because we perceive life to be unfair.
Posted on 2/5/14 at 7:27 am to HempHead
quote:
Or, as I have said, rights do not objectively exist (neither do morals
So you hold that no human action (murder for example) is objectively wrong?
quote:
but civilization and human happiness tend to excel when certain 'rights' are thought to be innate.
Pure pragmatism.
Posted on 2/5/14 at 7:30 am to CJM18
quote:
So you hold that no human action (murder for example) is objectively wrong?
Not really, but we are better off not killing each other. I'm not saying that I don't have morals, or that I don't think that a moral framework is conducive to human success, it's just that I don't think they actually exist outside of our own minds.
quote:
Pure pragmatism.
Yes.
This post was edited on 2/5/14 at 7:31 am
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