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Free Market Proponents and Tax Deductions
Posted on 1/25/14 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 1/25/14 at 2:25 pm
So the other thread about taxes made me think of this and I always find it rather interesting
I always see a lot of people who claim to be for a free market with as little government influence as possible defend tax deductions. This seems like an obvious instance of ideological inconsistency. If you are for a free market you should want 0 deductions of any form for both employers and employees.
Of course that being said, with no deductions we could lower rates across the board and still achieve the same revenue. Obviously everyone wants to pay as little taxes as possible so no one will begrudge you for taking advantage of deductions under the current system. Hell you would be silly not to.
Thoughts?
I always see a lot of people who claim to be for a free market with as little government influence as possible defend tax deductions. This seems like an obvious instance of ideological inconsistency. If you are for a free market you should want 0 deductions of any form for both employers and employees.
Of course that being said, with no deductions we could lower rates across the board and still achieve the same revenue. Obviously everyone wants to pay as little taxes as possible so no one will begrudge you for taking advantage of deductions under the current system. Hell you would be silly not to.
Thoughts?
11
Posted on 1/25/14 at 2:56 pm to Powerman
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/9/14 at 10:13 pm
Posted on 1/25/14 at 2:59 pm to Powerman
quote:
Thoughts?
Taxes are seen as an impediment, so advocating a tax deduction is just taking what is given. Those same people would (if being consistent) would obviously take no deductions for a standard lower rate.
Its not hypocritical to not try for the deduction in such an environment.
Let's say the government wants to kill 10,000 people, but is willing to offer a "deduction" to 9,000. You think killing is wrong, are you supposed to scoff at the offer of saving a 1,000 lives over principal?
These aren't mutually exclusive either. You can advocate for deductions while simultaneously trying to fight for a real flat rate. Problem is, there aren't that many truly believers on capital hill, and will take the money to create deductions for political favor and advantages for some over others.
This post was edited on 1/25/14 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:01 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
Its not hypocritical to not try for the deduction in such an environment.
As I said
quote:
Obviously everyone wants to pay as little taxes as possible so no one will begrudge you for taking advantage of deductions under the current system. Hell you would be silly not to.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:02 pm to Gr8t8s
quote:
No such thing as a totally free market.....and there never will be.
quote:
there has to be minimal government intrusion in certain aspects (monopolies, etc.).
You cite monopolies as a justification for government without even a hint of the irony that government is a monopoly in and of itself. Who will protect us from that monopoly?
As for a response to the OP:
A truly free market would not have taxes because the services that taxes pay for would be provided by the market if they were demanded, so the question is a little bit flawed.
However, I get the point you are trying to make. I think most of the free market proponents here on this site understand the flawed nature of tax deductions and how they are abused. I myself would like to see them done away with.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:02 pm to Powerman
Well, you asked for thoughts and found/listed your own conclusion in advance so what do you want from this thread?
I did provide more to my response than what you quoted.
I did provide more to my response than what you quoted.
This post was edited on 1/25/14 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:03 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
My cassette tape back. And I'll rip it out of your fricking chest if I have to.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:04 pm to Powerman
quote:
My cassette tape back. And I'll rip it out of your fricking chest if I have to.
I didn't know you were that big of a Roxette fan. You can have it.
C'mon join the Joyriiiiide.
This post was edited on 1/25/14 at 3:05 pm
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:05 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
I think it was my C and C Music Factory album actually
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:06 pm to Powerman
quote:
I think it was my C and C Music Factory album actually
I forgot to return a lot of tapes in those days.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:07 pm to Powerman
quote:
Of course that being said, with no deductions we could lower rates across the board and still achieve the same revenue.
If we did away with deductions, do you really think that this president/congress that we have now would lower rates to compensate?
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:15 pm to THRILLHO
quote:
If we did away with deductions, do you really think that this president/congress that we have now would lower rates to compensate?
It seems obvious that we are talking about a hypothetical situation. An ideological discussion if you will. But please feel free to freak out about it.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:16 pm to Powerman
quote:
If you are for a free market you should want 0 deductions of any form for both employers and employees.
i agree with this
i support tax deductions in teh current system in an attempt to create them overall (which = lower taxes)
deductions just influence behavior, which leads to bad results. best current/relevant example is the healthcare industry
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:40 pm to Powerman
Our entire income tax system is a tool used by politicians to manipulate behavior, which is why it will never change.
A national sales tax / FairTax would be the single biggest transfer of power from the government to the people in our lifetimes, which is why the government will never willingly enact it.
A national sales tax / FairTax would be the single biggest transfer of power from the government to the people in our lifetimes, which is why the government will never willingly enact it.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:42 pm to Gr8t8s
quote:
I would be for a flat tax with 2 possible personal deductions (child and home), and 1 corporate deduction (charity/research).
You can NOT have a flat tax with YOUR favorite deductions. Everyone has a favorite deduction. Why are yours better than mine? Flat tax must have ZERO deductions to lower tax rates and become revenue neutral.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 3:45 pm to THRILLHO
quote:
If we did away with deductions, do you really think that this president/congress that we have now would lower rates to compensate?
Should/Would fallacy. We are discussing a hypothetical. If you don't understand that here is an analogy.
I want to debate the topic: "Women should not be allowed to vote."
Your response is: "Do you really think that this president would allow that?"
Your response is irrelevant because of the word SHOULD.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:11 pm to Powerman
tax deductions are by definition incentives for something.
The problem is who decides what the incentives are.
The problem is who decides what the incentives are.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:12 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:
tax deductions are by definition incentives for something.
The problem is who decides what the incentives are.
Clearly the government is deciding what the incentives are. Sounds more like a centrally planned economy than a free market.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:15 pm to Powerman
Correct. Similar to 'govt picking the winners and losers.'
Not free market at all.
Not free market at all.
Posted on 1/25/14 at 4:17 pm to Powerman
that is exactly right.
For example:
Why should a $3000/month mortgage be subsidized but a $3000/month rent in NYC not be? Because frick renters that's why. And because bankers have a bigger lobby than renters.
For example:
Why should a $3000/month mortgage be subsidized but a $3000/month rent in NYC not be? Because frick renters that's why. And because bankers have a bigger lobby than renters.
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