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Melting arctic means opportunity... and possible conflict
Posted on 1/3/14 at 11:47 am
Posted on 1/3/14 at 11:47 am
LINK
quote:
The United States and other nations face many challenges and opportunities in the Arctic, a frozen frontier where melting ice is creating new shipping lanes, opening up access to massive oil, gas and mineral deposits, threatening coastal villages and posing possible future security threats.
quote:
Russia submitted a claim in 2001, saying that the Lomonosov Ridge, a 1,200-mile, undersea mountain range, is an extension of its territory. Moscow is to resubmit its application with more scientific data next year. Norway already has made its claim. Denmark plans to lay claim to the North Pole and other areas in the Arctic when it submits its claim next year. Earlier this month, Canada applied to extend its seabed claims in the Atlantic Ocean, including some preliminary Arctic claims, but it wants more time to prepare a claim that would include the North Pole.
4
Posted on 1/3/14 at 11:57 am to TejasHorn
The effect is straight forward according to the physical characteristics of water in its two states. Sea levels will be reduced by @4%. Water expands by that number when it freezes, you can test that at home with a glass of iced water before and after the ice has melted, just mark the glass while the ice hasn't melted then afterwards.
Posted on 1/3/14 at 2:11 pm to CITWTT
quote:
The effect is straight forward according to the physical characteristics of water in its two states. Sea levels will be reduced by @4%. Water expands by that number when it freezes, you can test that at home with a glass of iced water before and after the ice has melted, just mark the glass while the ice hasn't melted then afterwards.
C...are you sayin that the oceans will FALL, if or when polar ice melts? I've never heard or considered that, but your scientific analysis seems plausible.
Hmmmm.
Is all of that ice just 'floating'...or is or could it be suspended on submerged mountain tops or something. Food for thought. 
Posted on 1/3/14 at 2:15 pm to CITWTT
quote:1.floating ice doesn't change a water level when it melts.
CITWTT
2. the largest component on sea level rise is thermal expansion of water.
3. not sure if serious & clueless or trying to be funny.
Posted on 1/3/14 at 2:20 pm to Tigah in the ATL
Darn it...got me TA. 
Of course the ice cubes are expanded, and therein would displace more water and mitigate C's assertion.
I'm headin to the fridge. Thirsty anyway.
Of course the ice cubes are expanded, and therein would displace more water and mitigate C's assertion.
I'm headin to the fridge. Thirsty anyway.
Posted on 1/3/14 at 2:27 pm to RCDfan1950
bourbon over ice sounds like the solution.
Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:01 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:
2. the largest component on sea level rise is thermal expansion of water.
It's really not that much. I did the calculation for the fun of it.
The volume of water in the oceans is 1.37 billion kilometers cubed. That's 1.37 billion billion meters cubed.
So if the ocean temperature increases by 1 degree celsius the volume expansion of water is 287.7 kilometers cubed. Sounds like a lot, but...
....we have a ocean surface area of 361 million kilometers squared. So 287.7 km^3 divided by 361,000,000 km^2 = 0.0000007969 km or 0.0007969 m or ~0.08 cm or 0.0315 inches per degree celsius change.
That is for every celsius degree change in ocean temperature the oceans rise or fall by 0.0315 inches. To get to ONE INCH you would need a 31.75 degree celsius change in ocean temperature.
BTW, I used 0.00021/C as my coefficient of volumetric expansion for water.
Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:05 pm to GumboPot
All this science talk confuses me, but I did read a few days ago that Russia has reopened some of it's Siberian Naval bases and is in the process of rebuilding it's Arctic Fleet. They just completed a nuclear powered ice breaker and the fleet already has 5 or six surface combatants.
Also, I think it was a year or two a Russian sub planted the Russian flag at the North Pole on the ocean floor. I know Canada is none to pleased about these developments.
Can't find the link right now.
Also, I think it was a year or two a Russian sub planted the Russian flag at the North Pole on the ocean floor. I know Canada is none to pleased about these developments.
Can't find the link right now.
This post was edited on 1/3/14 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:07 pm to CITWTT
quote:
The effect is straight forward according to the physical characteristics of water in its two states. Sea levels will be reduced by @4%. Water expands by that number when it freezes, you can test that at home with a glass of iced water before and after the ice has melted, just mark the glass while the ice hasn't melted then afterwards.
Water expands by 20% when it freezes. For example, icebergs have 20% of their mass above water and 80% below water.
Also, if your water level changed after the ice melted, then you're doing it wrong. There should be no change in water level (minus thermal expansion which you won't see because it is microscopic).
Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:09 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
All this science talk confuses me
Not as confusing as this:
quote:
but I did read a few days ago that Russia has reopened some of it's Siberian Naval bases and is in the process of rebuilding it's Arctic Fleet. They just completed a nuclear powered ice breaker and the fleet already has 5 or six surface combatants.
Also, I think it was a year or two a Russian sub planted the Russian flag at the North Pole on the ocean floor. I know Canada is none to pleased about these developments.
Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:11 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:I believe the theory is melting glacial ice sheets, Antarctica, Greenland, etc, would be the significant contributors.
1.floating ice doesn't change a water level when it melts.
2. the largest component on sea level rise is thermal expansion of water.
3. not sure if serious & clueless or trying to be funny.
Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:14 pm to GumboPot
Why you laugh at me though?
Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:23 pm to GumboPot
I think simple math fails on such a large scale of the earth. A drop in a puddle is a tsunami in the sea. What happens to the earth underneath as the ice melts? does it rise forcing the water higher? Does the earth under the ocean sink just a bit in reaction to the additional water depth? And what about everything else???? Does it force earthquakes and volcanoes to explode? How does it affect the earths rotation? Do days get longer as more mass is concentrated at the center axis?
Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:33 pm to C
fricking magnets, how do they work?
Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:34 pm to cwill
quote:Magic
fricking magnets, how do they work?
Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:40 pm to C
Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:42 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
This thread is risin. Or sinkin. frick. I'm goin get birdseed for the little feathered friends. I can handle that. 
I'm goin get birdseed for the little feathered friends. I can handle that. Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:43 pm to cwill
I'm not in colorado fwiw...
Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:45 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Why you laugh at me though?
I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing at the fact that I believe the boarder situation with these countries to be much more confusing than determining the volumetric change of water due to temperature.
Posted on 1/3/14 at 3:57 pm to TejasHorn
except for that whole thing about the arctic not melting.
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