Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish | Page 8 | TigerDroppings.com

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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
24772 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


Thank you for explaining my point. You won't get it through his thick head though.. He disregards the fact that before ethanol mandates that caused a rise in feed and fuel costs we sold at a close price level to the imports and made profit.. And had 85 percent of the market. Imports skyrocked in 2005 then even higher in 2008 as a result of record high domestic prices, which were due to high production costs. We now, since 2005 when ethanol mandates took full effect, have been reduced to only 22 percent of the domestic market. You can look at the numbers of production and operating acres domestically year by year compared to import numbers and it directly correllates with the ethanol mandates





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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Buga Nation
Member since Apr 2006
21786 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


Which brings us back to the bill.

I would venture to say that in a scenario where there WAS a free global market and a true level field, not many people would support the bill. We all want a free market. It has been said before and I agree that if the domestic product is better, people will buy it even IF it costs a little more. The problem is we don't have a free market to begin with. Even if you take away the restrictions & tariffs on the imports we won't have one because the domestic producers are still bound to restrictions and additional costs put in place by our government.

Domestic producers want the bill. Why? Because they are getting driven under by their own government. I understand that. Again, it isn't ideal but I understand it.

What I don't understand is why you're outraged at the domestic farmers when it is the government that created the situation in the first place.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5996 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

1) We have ethanol subsidies and mandates here. They have driven the price of corn and other crops up to ridiculous levels


Ethanol drives up the price of grain worldwide. When the largest corn producing country in the world diverts 40% of it's corn to fuel it impacts all grains and all markets. It is not just a US producer cost. Yes ethanol subsidies suck.

quote:

4) We have minimum wages here. Imports don't deal with that.


Maybe not. BMW has much higher labor cost than we do but exports cars to the US for example. I am not sure about wage laws in other catfish producing countries but to say "imports" don't deal with it as if all imports don't is just not true.

quote:

1) Yes, this new bill makes it tougher on imports.


it's sole purpose.

quote:

2) It is being discussed because domestic farmers are struggling to compete with foreign farmers.


Not in fresh markets as I have demonstrated. Now if we are going to have "level playing fields" should we subsidize air freight so the Vietnamese can fly fresh fish in?? Of course not.

quote:

4) The US government has regulated domestic farmers to a point to where they claim they can't compete


Regulation may be a part of it. Competitive disadvantages certainly are---climate being one. We don't have a significant bamboo industry in the US either nor do we produce catfish in Alaska. Should Delta decide to grow catfish in Alaska how many protective tariffs should he get then? If he grows bamboo in Mississippi should he be eligible for anti dumping tariffs??? Has it ever occurred to you we just might not be competitive growing catfish and processing and freezing them because of market issues?


Look Delta has melted down as his arguments have failed.

He hasn't proven any of his points. Even his beloved Mississippi State has acknowledge the quality of the Vietnamese product.

This crap about him being just for USDA inspection is just that crap and that has been my ENTIRE POINT.

These catfish lobbying groups are special interest seeking advantages and protection from the government. They make their living telling their employers (catfish farmers in this case) how bad things are and how they can fix them. That is the bottom line.

If the Asian product is crap it won't last but it obviously is not as it has been here going on 20 years. It is total crap the Vietnamese government subsidies them. It is total crap their processing is less quality than ours even if Delta hates the Australians that say so.

If this were about equalizing and consolidating food inspection that would be one thing but you can tell from Delta's incessant whining about cost and profits it is far more than that.

It is special interest looking for favors from government whether it is corn growers and ethanol, film producers and film tax credits, insurance companies and Landrieucare or defense contractors and failed aircraft.

I couldn't care less about the Vietnamese catfish farmers. I don't know if I have eaten any. If I did I certainly didn't know it unfortunately for young Delta. I can't stand whiners and I can't stand special interest with no regard for what their actions cost Americans.



This post was edited on 9/18 at 1:27 pm


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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
24772 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


Climate here is fine for raising fish. Feed season is march through early november. Catfish is native to these parts, your alaska analogy is completely pointless. My "meltdown" is due to I hate narrow minded idealogists like you who can't objectively look at the big picture, combined with I'm tired of arguing and work today has been awful due to 2 employers not showing up, having 5 tractors and 15 aerators broke, and a drain pipe broke and is gushing water and I got to somehow stop it so I'm not in a very friendly mood today but when I get home ill find the info on my laptop and gladly show you the correllation betwenn ethanol and domestic producers decline. My OP already covered an example ofthe potential health risks unless you think a scientific study in our own country by people not affiliated with the catfish industry would be false.





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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5996 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

Feed season is march through early november


25-33%% of the year you are not producing--don't you think that is a competitive disadvantage against a tropical producer (waiting to hear the BS you come up with about that)

quote:

I hate narrow minded idealogists like you who can't objectively look at the big picture,


I looked at it completely objectively. You look at from the point of view of a profit seeking catfish producer.

quote:

work today has been awful due to 2 employers not showing up, having 5 tractors and 15 aerators broke, and a drain pipe broke and is gushing water and I got to somehow stop it so I'm not in a very friendly mood today


Can you post without whining? Is there a business in America that does not have operating problems?

quote:

gladly show you the correllation betwenn ethanol and domestic producers decline.


You don't have to post anything. I am absolutely aware of the impact of ethanol. You couldn't go up on price as fast as the price of grain went up. Your product couldn't keep the same volume at higher prices. I got it. Same for the Vietnamese. You are not unique in that. Consumption of any meat is generally less when grains are higher.

Your OP may very well be true but it is also very convenient for your lobbyist. Where are the regulators??? State regulators can force that off the shelf if it is out of tolerance or against the law.







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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Buga Nation
Member since Apr 2006
21786 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

Ethanol drives up the price of grain worldwide. When the largest corn producing country in the world diverts 40% of it's corn to fuel it impacts all grains and all markets. It is not just a US producer cost. Yes ethanol subsidies suck.


I believe Delta mentioned the imports using different feeds that domestics can't. Could be wrong though.

quote:

Maybe not. BMW has much higher labor cost than we do but exports cars to the US for example. I am not sure about wage laws in other catfish producing countries but to say "imports" don't deal with it as if all imports don't is just not true.


That's BMW. We're talking about Vietnam and China. I assumed it would be implied that I wasn't lumping catfish farming in with luxury car manufacturers.

quote:

Not in fresh markets as I have demonstrated. Now if we are going to have "level playing fields" should we subsidize air freight so the Vietnamese can fly fresh fish in?? Of course not.


Why would we give tax dollars to a foreign producer to farm when we can produce here? You're also assuming the only way to level the field is through subsidies. Look at the entire picture. Ideally we would undo what caused it to become un-level to begin with.

quote:

Has it ever occurred to you we just might not be competitive growing catfish and processing and freezing them because of market issues?


It is certainly possible, but not likely. We were competitive in the not-so-distant past and there is strong evidence pointing to our own government hampering our own farmers from being able to survive the market. Remove those factors so you have a level field (tariffs included) and see what happens. If domestic farmers still aren't competitive then I'll concede the point.

quote:

Should Delta decide to grow catfish in Alaska how many protective tariffs should he get then?


That would make zero sense. Mississippi has had a productive and competitive catfish market recently. Alaska hasn't and likely couldn't.

quote:

If this were about equalizing and consolidating food inspection that would be one thing but you can tell from Delta's incessant whining about cost and profits it is far more than that.


Yeah, it is about an industry he is closely tied to that has been driven under due to government regulation that gives an advantage to a foreign producer. Even IF he has some underlying hatred for the Vietnamese he has fair and possibly valid points.

quote:

It is special interest looking for favors from government whether it is corn growers and ethanol, film producers and film tax credits, insurance companies and Landrieucare or defense contractors and failed aircraft.


They are indeed looking for special favors. Unlike a few of the examples you provided, however, it is because they believe the policies of the government are harming their inudstry.

If those regulations and policies are harming them they have every right to be pissed. The problem is the government only knows one way to fix things...by adding more things. Delta said it and I agree with him...there is ZERO chance they'll undo legislation that has caused harm to the catfish industry. Instead, they're trying to fix it with the inspections, tariffs, etc. It sucks but they're just fighting the only logical, winnable fight they have.






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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Buga Nation
Member since Apr 2006
21786 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

I looked at it completely objectively.








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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5996 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


Whining has been a pretty profitable act on the part of catfish producers.

They got Congress to outlaw the use of "catfish" to describe imported catfish.

They got a tariff and then a couple of years latter they got the DOC to venue shop for them to get a bigger tariff.

Last year they got the government to actually purchase $10 million worth of catfish citing a glut in the market.

Now they want this inspection change and hopefully crop subsidized crop insurance.

It's paid off for them.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5996 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

I looked at it completely objectively.






Why do you find that funny? I didn't see you or Delta mentioning all the findings on the quality of the imported fish or the Vietnamese investment in processing or the size of catfish tariffs or the other efforts of the catfish lobby or that domestic fish enjoy advantages because of less shipping cost and distribution cost. You guys won't even acknowledge that MSU's survey said consumers liked the import better.

Now an objective look should certainly include all of those things wouldn't you agree?

All I saw from you guys was sensationalism and exaggerations. It got crazier as it went. We went from my original post in the other thread that special interest catfish farmers want consumers to pay more (an absolute fact) to wild claims about the cost of feed, fish and labor.







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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Buga Nation
Member since Apr 2006
21786 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

I didn't see you or Delta mentioning all the findings on the quality of the imported fish


I said I didn't know one way or the other but the testing should be applied to imports the same way it is to domestics. I don't care if their quality is great or crap as long as the same standards are applied across the board.

quote:

the size of catfish tariffs


Go back and read. I said ideally we wouldn't have them and that I have no problem removing them if the government removed the restrictions and the legislation that harms domestic producers.

quote:

or that domestic fish enjoy advantages because of less shipping cost and distribution cost


Shipping and distribution are costs of doing business, not effects of government regulation.

quote:

You guys won't even acknowledge that MSU's survey said consumers liked the import better.


Because it is irrelevant. If we're bringing surveys and research into this then acknowledge the OP study. Imported fish are far more likely to be contaminated. ETA: Just to re-state this, I don't care if they are or not. The point is that domestic producers couldn't move that product to market while foreign producers can. If we're going to have a standard then apply it across the board.

quote:

Now an objective look should certainly include all of those things wouldn't you agree?


Eh...some of them. Even then I've acknowledged those.

quote:

special interest catfish farmers want consumers to pay more (an absolute fact)


I highly doubt that is their primary goal. If you think it is then it is just as easy to say you would rather have a foreign industry succeed and a domestic industry die off.



This post was edited on 9/18 at 2:33 pm


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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
24772 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


We still harvest fish year round even in cold weather. They don't grow 25 percent of the year but we anticipate it and grow extra in line with demand. Its not much of a disadvantage.. A small one but not significant enough where it causes the issue at hand. We did fine defeating imports straight up until ethanol mandates caused rising feed costs. Vietnam can mill their feed cheaper due to paying their workers next to nothing (communist characteristic) and also they have way less regulations on feed. There was a big regulation that hurt our feeds quality and price when the Govt forced us to stop using ground up beef/fish meal in the feed. Vietnam on the other hand can do such things





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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
24772 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


If the MSU survey was correct then why did domestic catfish dominate the market up until ethanol mandates kicked in? Prior to that we sold at similar prices to imports and the imports had existed in our market since the late 80s. During that time, there were no tariffs or anything on imports yet we kicked their ass. They only started taking over after our production costs skyrocketed. We were and still are a superior product. I would chalk that survey up to being poorly done. I've yet to meet a person who thinks imported fish is better quality than domestic. What do you mean by "wild claims" of feed prices and labor? You don't agree that feed going from 225 a ton to over 400 a ton hurt us? Or raising minimum wage numerous times?





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dwr353
LSU Fan
Opelousas, La
Member since Oct 2007
566 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


Delta, you can not argue with people who have already made up their mind(their right). I agree with you about Asian seafood. I think that it should be tested and the results put on the package, ie for instance "contains chemicals known to cause cancer and human waste residue". Let the consumer decide if exposing himself and his family is worth saving $2. I think it is time for Americans to stand together for the common good or quit complaining about the economy. If I have to buy imported seafood, I just won't buy it.





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