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re: Great read on why paying college athletes would NOT be doomsday
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:04 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:04 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
funny enough we have an actual, concrete example of this that occurred within the past 10 years or so: the NBA changing its entry rules to require 1 year of college basketball. that was a pure marketing move for teams so that when a kevin durant or derrick rose gets drafted, they're already a "somebody"
Funny enough, we don't NEED a college to boost a certain individual in their gifted athletic abilities. ESPN put an 8th grader on the cover of their magazine with his football story. The little 8 year old girl who had the youtube video of her juking all the kids out of their cleats. She got on Good Morning America, etc.
1
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:06 am to shel311
quote:
That's the difference, a rather huge difference.
not really, as long as it's clear at the time of agreement (which it is). do you think all contracts offer immediate benefits to both parties? no, that's ridiculous and a very simplistic view of the world
quote:
How are these remotely comparable? The CFL and NFLE are for players who basically aren't good enough for the NFL,
kind of like players in minor leagues
quote:
The mythical minor leagues of football would house basically all of the NFL's future stars.
and there is no guarantee of popularity, access, or image-development. that would be worse for players developing their image in the long run (which was how this sub-discussion began)
quote:
It would replace CFB, obviously lose some of the luster and tradition, but people would be infinitely more interested in that than NFLE or CFL.
why?
CFB creates associations through things other than the sport directly. that is a huge reason why it's so popular, and why college sports have so much support across the board (relatively speaking...for example women's CBB is more popular than professional women's ball)
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:07 am to USAF Hart
quote:
Funny enough, we don't NEED a college to boost a certain individual in their gifted athletic abilities.
i'm talking marketing, and it was more effective to generate an image in 1 year in college than via skipping college
kevin durant and derrick rose were in better positions, in terms of marketing/image, after 1 year in college than had they gone straight to the NBA. and this is coming from teh biggest "go straight to the NBA" guy you'll ever meet
i understand how the public works, and they're not as dedicated to following players as i am. they want to see a guy in college to develop fandom, and that's that
This post was edited on 7/26/13 at 10:09 am
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:09 am to shel311
quote:
How are these remotely comparable? The CFL and NFLE are for players who basically aren't good enough for the NFL, and a select few may make it with enough reps.
wait, what?
kind of like college football
This post was edited on 7/26/13 at 10:11 am
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:13 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Nonetheless, if minor league squads were tied to NFL squads, you don't think that association would be enough to make it more popular than CFL or NFLE?
CFB creates associations through things other than the sport directly
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:14 am to chalmetteowl
quote:Uhh, basically all NFLers come from college football, I have no clue what you're talking about.
kind of like college football
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:15 am to shel311
quote:and that is the part that is wrong not student athletes needing to be paid like professional athletes.
big time college athletics is a business.
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:16 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:How is it wrong? It generated billions of dollars, how are you going to make it not a business?
and that is the part that is wrong
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:16 am to shel311
quote:
if minor league squads were tied to NFL squads, you don't think that association would be enough to make it more popular than CFL or NFLE?
you misunderstood the CFL/NFLE reference, which would be where they'd store the kids
and yes, if the NFL created a minor league system similar to the system of basketball or baseball, it would not be as popular as CFB
i mean just look at baseball. CBB is not popular, but it's about 1,000x more popular than the minor leagues of the MLB
same with CBB and the NBDL
we have examples of this comparison already, and the college counterpart wins each time
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:18 am to shel311
quote:
It generated billions of dollars, how are you going to make it not a business?
it's a business
but it's a non-profit business (and often a big money loser)
you can call it a business all you want
you can call it a revenue generator all you want
that still doesn't provide a way for the vast majority of schools to pay for player-salaries
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:20 am to VerlanderBEAST
I don't get the big push from media outlets and public opinion to pay college athletes... same goes for breaking up the NCAA. The end result will be a super conference of a handful of teams that will move the sport even further down the path of commercialization.
People need to be careful what they wish for with regards to paying players and dissolving the NCAA... to have a product that even further resembles the NFL?... b/c that'll be the end result.
People need to be careful what they wish for with regards to paying players and dissolving the NCAA... to have a product that even further resembles the NFL?... b/c that'll be the end result.
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:20 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:I stated that already. BUt it would be much closer to CFB than CFL or NFLE, I think that's a no brainer.
and yes, if the NFL created a minor league system similar to the system of basketball or baseball, it would not be as popular as CFB
quote:I think you're underrating how popular football is when making these comparisons.
i mean just look at baseball. CBB is not popular, but it's about 1,000x more popular than the minor leagues of the MLB
[quote]we have examples of this comparison already, and the college counterpart wins each time
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:23 am to shel311
quote:
I think you're underrating how popular football is when making these comparisons.
you're mixing up comparisons
football is popular. that's why CFB is the clear-cut #2 sport in 'Murka
that does not have anything to do with how popular an NFL minor league would be. even if it was the #2 sport, we're comparing it to where CFB is now, and not against other sports
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:24 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
CFB is the clear-cut #2 sport in 'Murka
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Whoa, no no no.
even if it was the #2 sport, we're comparing it to where CFB is now, and not against other sports
You made the CFL/NFLE comparison. I stated that it would be WAY more popular than that, and the replies you came back with seem to insinuate you disagreed with my position.
It was never a comparison towards CFB vs the mythical minor league system until the last couple of posts.
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:29 am to shel311
quote:
You made the CFL/NFLE comparison.
and you misunderstood them
and i clarified
and you misunderstood them
CFL/NFLE is the likely type of system the NFL would create (either re-do the NFLE to gain ground in Europe without establishing a team there, or work out an agreement with the CFL to subsidize that league taking on their minor league players, kind of like the NBDL)
if the NFL does one of those minor league systems, then the minor leagues will not be popular at all
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:33 am to Sophandros
There will always be the counter argument.
Who gets paid what? Do qbs get more than punters? Do the marketable guys get more? Does Dukes basketball team get more than their football team? If so, athletes would chose schools based on money, not coaches and education.
Who gets paid what? Do qbs get more than punters? Do the marketable guys get more? Does Dukes basketball team get more than their football team? If so, athletes would chose schools based on money, not coaches and education.
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:38 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Because professional athletes get compensated with $ and student athletes get compensated with scholarships
Once you concede that college athletes are getting compensated, you've lost the argument. Now, you're only arguing price. There is no fundamental difference from getting a scholarship and getting scholarship and a stipend. If the first is okay, then the second must be as well.
The NCAA right now is restricting trade. They are telling member institutions what they are allowed to give and what students are allowed to accept. Why not remove the restriction and let the free market decide? Now, not all restraints on trade are illegal, but you need a compelling reason. And this gets to the heart of the matter:
I don't value amateurism at all. It is an outdated concept dating back to 19th century gentlemen. They valued amateurism because it demonstrated they did not work. It was inherently elitist and completely inapplicable to a student athlete. The question is, should the courts continue to value amateurism as a valid concern?
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:42 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i'm talking marketing
Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Tracy McGrady, Amar'e Stoudemire, Dwight Howard all came straight out of high school. Are they, or have they not been some of the most marketable NBA stars in the past 15-20 years? My point is, if a kid is athletic enough, the marketing is not hard at all. LeBron James has been the poster boy of the NBA since he came into the NBA. The spotlight has shown on him every step of the way.
Posted on 7/26/13 at 10:47 am to USAF Hart
quote:
Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Tracy McGrady, Amar'e Stoudemire, Dwight Howard all came straight out of high school.
you're looking back on these guys after the fact. TMac, Amare, Howard, and Bryant weren't marketable for a good bit into their careers. Kobe wasn't even drafted in the top 10 and had little hype other than he could speak Italian. TMac was a nobody in terms of marketability. he was best known as vince carter's cousin until he went to Orlando. There was a big debate about Howard and Emeka fricking Okafor
Lebron is the exception to most basketball arguments, including this one. he had a $90M shoe contract as soon as he left high school. he was 8-figure marketable as a high school junior. complete outlier
quote:
My point is, if a kid is athletic enough, the marketing is not hard at all.
exactly, just ask Ndudi Ebi
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