What has the GZ/TM situation taught you? | Page 12 | TigerDroppings.com

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manwich
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


i find that the well off are much more likely to take care of the poor when the poor are grateful for the assistance.





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SabiDojo
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

as a sane individual, you shouldn't and it shouldn't be a difficult conclusion to come to.



And what conclusion are you talking about?

quote:

your measured response makes me doubt whether you are looking at this logically



And I find your reasoning very unimpressive.






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SabiDojo
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

Sure. You clearly stated you don't trust people to take care of the poor, yet you said govt must be involved.



And what else did I say? I said that we must change the culture of this country. I want our culture to be pessimistic about human nature, and that means be mindful and wary of both individuals and government.






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RogerTheShrubber
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

i find that the well off are much more likely to take care of the poor when the poor are grateful for the assistance.



I find that people are more than willing to help the poor when that "help" isn't deducted from their paycheck. It removes personal involvement and breeds entitlement.






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junkfunky
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

I want our culture to be pessimistic about human nature, and that means be mindful and wary of both individuals and government.


That makes me kinda sad, seriously.

I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove they didn't deserve it.






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SabiDojo
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

That makes me kinda sad, seriously.



This view of human nature is from the Judeo-Christian tradition. You don't have to agree with it. The citizens of this country are fairly optimistic of human nature.



This post was edited on 7/16 at 5:01 pm


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A2
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

This view of human nature is from the Judeo-Christian tradition. You don't have to agree with it. The citizens of this country are fairly optimistic of human nature.


I think your logic is sound, but unfortunately the ideology has become flawed.

The gap between the haves and haves-nots has increased.






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TrueTiger
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove they didn't deserve it.



You sound like me. I'm way too trusting of people. I get burned for it sometimes.






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manwich
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

And I find your reasoning very unimpressive.
after reading your disjointed and convoluted opinions, I'm not surprised






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SabiDojo
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

I think your logic is sound, but unfortunately the ideology has become flawed.



I don't think it is flawed. It was abandoned.

quote:

The gap between the haves and haves-nots has increased.



And maybe because the ideology was abandoned in favor of a more optimistic view of human nature. It started before this country started. In fact, some believe it started with Machiavelli.






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SabiDojo
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

after reading your disjointed and convoluted opinions, I'm not surprised



Okay.






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RogerTheShrubber
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:


The gap between the haves and haves-nots has increased.



Moreso since the advent of the Great Society






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RogerTheShrubber
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Juneau, AK
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

I want our culture to be pessimistic about human nature


Why????

That doesn't appear to be very healthy. I'm extremely optimistic and positive about the individual and what he/she is capable of doing.






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SabiDojo
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

That doesn't appear to be very healthy. I'm extremely optimistic and positive about the individual and what he/she is capable of doing.



Pessimistic doesn't mean you are completely absent of hope. You do know that, right?

I would say a good way to sum it up would be:

"When it comes to mankind, expect the best, but never be surprised by the worst."






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A2
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

I think your logic is sound, but unfortunately the ideology has become flawed.


I don't think it is flawed. It was abandoned.


I think you are right in a certain respect, but I think it was abandoned by both sides of the coin for reasons that are antagonistic from both points-of-view.

quote:

The gap between the haves and haves-nots has increased.


And maybe because the ideology was abandoned in favor of a more optimistic view of human nature. It started before this country started. In fact, some believe it started with Machiavelli.


I think optimism in the condition of human nature is not possible. Those with more feel entitled. It has been that way. Those with less feel excised against, and thus entitled too in a democracy.

Democracy (in terms of the American concept) is a new concept in leadership. What is disconcerting is the way things have changed, the more they stay the same.

And the working folk that we are [(whether it be a comparison with blacksmiths, farmers, and the like if you use comparisons to the Middle Ages and from historic world societies)] the result has been closely been the same.

Democracy is failing, but moreso in that the government tries to help more in our current societal state.

Democracy, like many governmental concepts and ideologies, will most likely fail.






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RogerTheShrubber
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:


"When it comes to mankind, expect the best, but never be surprised by the worst."



I wouldn't consider that to be pessimism.






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manwich
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


America is a republic, not a democracy





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junkfunky
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


quote:

"When it comes to mankind, expect the best, but never be surprised by the worst."


Which is what I do and to me it sounds exactly like cautious optimism.

Maybe I'm just an optimist.






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RCDfan1950
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


Just some candid thoughts on the whole situation. If you would like to comment on what someone else has said, don't be exhaustive. Why not just say your two cents and be done with it?

Here is what I've learned:

I have learned, bar-none, that race relations is still the most passionate, most powerful subject/issue that is on the minds of the black community.

I don't know what exactly it is they want though. I don't know if they want to talk about it, get some type of compensation for past ills, get special treatment à la native Americans..I don't know.

Maybe, they just want to be angry. Maybe in a perpetual cycle of "epic fail as a race"(those the words of one poster) they have collectively given up on being a citizen of America, and are just stuck with being born here.

Seriously. Save for peanut butter, dribbling a ball, and a few music contributions, what really have blacks contributed to American prosperity? Absolutely nothing. I stand by this statement: Blacks are, and have always been, worse off now, than before the Civil Rights movement.

That's right. We murder each other at exponentially a much greater clip. We have more single, unwed mothers ever. A very high percentage of us are incarcerated. And a majority of Americans view the first ever black President as a failure (ill stop short of saying collosal).

I have learned black people are angry. I'm not. I won't cower in a corner and refuse to talk about race. It is so important we talk about it.

But to kid yourself to the notion that everything is not either political or racial, well, that's doing your conscience, at the least, a disservice.

And let me say lastly, the jury came to the right decision. I think they sympathized with the raw emotions of parents and loved ones, ignored the anger that just always seems to elicit a bad decision (as in the case of the deceased) and rightfully acquitted George Zimmerman.

Unless someone else just has more beef on how shitty us black people have been for the past...well damn, our entire history, just tell us what you learned from this event.


This post was edited on 7/16 at 2:00 pm



Hardcore assessment, E.

The essence of the Capitalist/Individualist culture is COMPETITION. The status and economic success goes to the strongest, which in this socio-economic culture...means the smartest. Not the physically strong; but them that have strong social/communication or high tech abstract skills.

As a group - and given the historical and cultural record - Blacks suffer the psychological 'inferiority complex' (or whatever would be the proper medical term). Yet, I think that all people desire respect, feel that they are indeed equal children of God...and in the current dynamic of the failure of Black (sub) culture...such even furthers acerbates the inferiority thing. It's gotta hurt, down deep.

So, in reaction...pride (false version) manifest as a counter to what would be a false assessment of empirically manifest racial inferiority...per your critique. And when one's pride, or self-worth is challenged...indignation and anger jumps to defend the inflamed ego.

And not only the manifestation of false pride...but a "searing of the conscience" (Biblical), in order to offset the ugly truth.

There is your Collective "anger", buddy. I hope your Faith is as strong as your honesty. That will be your only consolation for what is a hurtful problem that won't go quietly into the night.

Be well.







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QJenk
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Member since Jan 2013
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re: What has the GZ/TM situation taught you?


I was with you for the most part except for this
quote:

Seriously. Save for peanut butter, dribbling a ball, and a few music contributions, what really have blacks contributed to American prosperity? Absolutely nothing. I stand by this statement: Blacks are, and have always been, worse off now, than before the Civil Rights movement.


That is a very ridiculous ignorant statement to say, you cant seriously believe that






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