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Smith, Vilma, & Harper: Do they all make the final 53?
Posted on 7/14/13 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 7/14/13 at 12:02 pm
good coverage from Brian Allee-Walsh.
-- Smith is under the most pressure with a salary cap number of $8,502,451, second only to quarterback Drew Brees ($17.4 million). Smith, who celebrated his 32nd birthday on July 4, better stay healthy and show signs in camp that he can bring it off the edge. Getting to the quarterback is Job 1 for a defense hell bent to prove last season was an aberration. The loss of free agent outside linebacker Victor Butler during an OTA in June certainly doesn't help matters.
-- Vilma ($3,832,500 against the cap) must prove he can shed blocks and be effective against the run in Ryan's 3-4. He had trouble doing both at his first NFL stop with the New York Jets, who ultimately traded him to New Orleans.
-- Harper ($3,660,000 against the cap), too, is under close scrutiny largely because he has been a liability in pass coverage. He received a $2.91 million signing bonus under terms of his renegotiated contract, suggesting Saints officials believe he can still play at a high level. Whether that comes as a starter or in a reserve role remains to be seen.
What got me was the cap hit. After the renegotiated deals there is still near $16million of cap committed to these guys this year. That's 13% of the cap toward three guys we are questioning making the team, much less being solid contributors in a new scheme.
There is certainly strength is keeping your core players and leaders. But you always have to ask, at what price? One most prolly still remember is Fatass Grant. He seemingly took the money and flopped (not ran) after getting a lucrative extension.
The cap squeeze is usually a result of continued winning. Graham & dlP will need big money next year. Evans. Grubbs, Colston, Bunkley, & Keenan Lewis go up a cumulative $18mil in cap hit for 2014- the challenges never end!
Loomis does some pretty good magic as a bean counter every year. I'm satisfied enough with the drafts & free agent acquisitions the past 7 years. I'd just like to see a little more towards the Belichick standard of "better to cut a player one contract too soon rather than keep one one contract too long".
-- Smith is under the most pressure with a salary cap number of $8,502,451, second only to quarterback Drew Brees ($17.4 million). Smith, who celebrated his 32nd birthday on July 4, better stay healthy and show signs in camp that he can bring it off the edge. Getting to the quarterback is Job 1 for a defense hell bent to prove last season was an aberration. The loss of free agent outside linebacker Victor Butler during an OTA in June certainly doesn't help matters.
-- Vilma ($3,832,500 against the cap) must prove he can shed blocks and be effective against the run in Ryan's 3-4. He had trouble doing both at his first NFL stop with the New York Jets, who ultimately traded him to New Orleans.
-- Harper ($3,660,000 against the cap), too, is under close scrutiny largely because he has been a liability in pass coverage. He received a $2.91 million signing bonus under terms of his renegotiated contract, suggesting Saints officials believe he can still play at a high level. Whether that comes as a starter or in a reserve role remains to be seen.
What got me was the cap hit. After the renegotiated deals there is still near $16million of cap committed to these guys this year. That's 13% of the cap toward three guys we are questioning making the team, much less being solid contributors in a new scheme.
There is certainly strength is keeping your core players and leaders. But you always have to ask, at what price? One most prolly still remember is Fatass Grant. He seemingly took the money and flopped (not ran) after getting a lucrative extension.
The cap squeeze is usually a result of continued winning. Graham & dlP will need big money next year. Evans. Grubbs, Colston, Bunkley, & Keenan Lewis go up a cumulative $18mil in cap hit for 2014- the challenges never end!
Loomis does some pretty good magic as a bean counter every year. I'm satisfied enough with the drafts & free agent acquisitions the past 7 years. I'd just like to see a little more towards the Belichick standard of "better to cut a player one contract too soon rather than keep one one contract too long".
This post was edited on 7/14/13 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 7/14/13 at 12:09 pm to blueslover
quote:
Smith is under the most pressure with a salary cap number of $8,502,451, second only to quarterback Drew Brees ($17.4 million).
Posted on 7/14/13 at 1:17 pm to blueslover
quote:
One most prolly still remember is Fatass Grant. He seemingly took the money and flopped (not ran) after getting a lucrative extension.
Not to sidetrack this thread but this sentiment is strong amongst the fanbase & constantly mentioned. Yes, Grant went downhill after signing his extension but he should never been offered such a huge extension in the first place.
After a protective first 3 seasons, Grant really fell off production wise. Was it because he was fat? No. It was due to his body breaking down.
Grant had serious knee injuries in both high school & at Georgia. He was also severely burned as a child. Throw in a couple of seasons playing NFL football & it was evidiable that Grant would break down sooner then most players his age. The FO should have taken these factors into consideration before deciding to give Grant such a hefty extension in the first place.
Posted on 7/14/13 at 1:22 pm to blueslover
The only one I see being of real use is Vilma. I've lost all faith in Smith. I remember being excited during the 11 because he dropped weight, but he was still an old suck arse. I don't want to rely on him for shite.
Harper needs to be on the field as little as possible. Maybe in heavy packages.
Harper needs to be on the field as little as possible. Maybe in heavy packages.
Posted on 7/14/13 at 1:30 pm to blueslover
"What got me was the cap hit. After the renegotiated deals there is still near $16million of cap committed to these guys this year. That's 13% of the cap toward three guys we are questioning making the team, much less being solid contributors in a new scheme."
While some of us had big time criticisms of Smith and Harper, Mickey Loomis jumped at the chance to sign their current contracts a few years ago. Grant's contract should have been a wakeup call.
While some of us had big time criticisms of Smith and Harper, Mickey Loomis jumped at the chance to sign their current contracts a few years ago. Grant's contract should have been a wakeup call.
Posted on 7/14/13 at 1:34 pm to blueslover
" I'm satisfied enough with the drafts & free agent acquisitions the past 7 years"
I'm not, we had a couple good years but other than that it's been very average to below average. For every Sproles there is a list of 10 flops. Our best players from the draft the last few years have been guys that went undrafted.
I'm not, we had a couple good years but other than that it's been very average to below average. For every Sproles there is a list of 10 flops. Our best players from the draft the last few years have been guys that went undrafted.
Posted on 7/14/13 at 1:35 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
he should never been offered such a huge extension in the first place
kinda my point- same thing for these 3 vets. The $16mil of cap these 3 are taking this year could have got garnered 2-3 stud players in the free agent market. Instead we're stuck with three aging (30. 31, & 32) hoping they can somehow earn anywhere near their pay.
Bushrod is an example to the good side. Not a discussion of his skill level but Chicago definitely paid a lot more than what we know of his talent. I liked him alright but not at that price. Better to deal with some unknowns than overpaying in the long run.
Posted on 7/14/13 at 1:39 pm to blueslover
At the safety position, who gets their playing time cut more because of the addition of Vaccaro, Harper or Jenkins? Drafting Vaccaro so early seems to suggest that the FO sees one of these two as being on borrowed time.
Posted on 7/14/13 at 2:02 pm to Hurricane Mike
quote:
. For every Sproles there is a list of 10 flops
No.
Posted on 7/14/13 at 3:13 pm to Peazey
quote:
At the safety position, who gets their playing time cut more because of the addition of Vaccaro, Harper or Jenkins? Drafting Vaccaro so early seems to suggest that the FO sees one of these two as being on borrowed time.
Dunno how the playing time will shake out but the incumbents are certainly on borrowed time. In 2014 Jenkins is a UFA and Harper's cap hit steps up to $5.9mil from $3.7mil. This is just a continuation of my same thought... Overpaying and rolling the money forward will still make it a $3.7mil cap hit to cut Harper in '14. If Jenkins wants a payday this is his chance. Sedrick Ellis had the same opportunity last year and you saw how on fire he got.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 12:55 am to blueslover
quote:
The cap squeeze is usually a result of continued winning. Graham & dlP will need big money next year. Evans. Grubbs, Colston, Bunkley, & Keenan Lewis go up a cumulative $18mil in cap hit for 2014- the challenges never end!
I doubt that Bunkley will be back in 2014. He is kind of another Aubrayo Franklin to me. Someone who never really found his way here. I mean he has been a 4-3 interior guy all of his career. Hopefully he can find a way to contribute this year. He wasn't used all that much last year because I think the defense ran a lot of nickel packages that he wasn't apart of.
I have no clue what to expect from him this year. I just hope he gets more chances this year in Ryan's defense.
I think of the vets you originally you mentioned, Vilma has the least to be worried about. He can probably cover better than the rest of the LB's we have in the passing game. I think the biggest question with him at this point is can he stay healthy?
Hawthorne and Lofton both seem like the best heavy hitters in the middle. As long as there isn't injuries at that spot like last year, I think that rotation can hold up alright.
This post was edited on 7/15/13 at 12:57 am
Posted on 7/15/13 at 1:04 am to Hurricane Mike
quote:
" I'm satisfied enough with the drafts & free agent acquisitions the past 7 years"
I'm not, we had a couple good years but other than that it's been very average to below average. For every Sproles there is a list of 10 flops. Our best players from the draft the last few years have been guys that went undrafted.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 1:08 am to Hurricane Mike
quote:You mean those couple years where we won a superbowl and have had a top 3 offense in the NFL for years now?
" I'm satisfied enough with the drafts & free agent acquisitions the past 7 years" I'm not, we had a couple good years but other than that it's been very average to below average. For every Sproles there is a list of 10 flops. Our best players from the draft the last few years have been guys that went undrafted.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 1:15 am to LooseCannon22282
quote:
I mean he has been a 4-3 interior guy all of his career.
No he hasn't. He was most successful playing NT in a 3-4. Where he rated out as one of the best defensive tackles on the season
Posted on 7/15/13 at 1:26 am to whodidthat
quote:
No he hasn't. He was most successful playing NT in a 3-4. Where he rated out as one of the best defensive tackles on the season
that's not true. He played the 4-3 in denver.
It has been discussed pretty extensively on this board over the last few years. He was supposed to play the 3-4, but they switched it before the season
This post was edited on 7/15/13 at 1:28 am
Posted on 7/15/13 at 2:15 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
that's not true. He played the 4-3 in denver. It has been discussed pretty extensively on this board over the last few years. He was supposed to play the 3-4, but they switched it before the season
Gold jacket, green jacket, who gives a shite?
This post was edited on 7/15/13 at 2:19 am
Posted on 7/15/13 at 2:53 am to Melvin
quote:
You mean those couple years where we won a superbowl and have had a top 3 offense in the NFL for years now?
Also probably the worst defense in NFL history.
I am not making an argument either way but for all the good there has been some bad, really bad...
Posted on 7/15/13 at 3:06 am to blueslover
Unless Smith shows next to nothing in camp as a pass rusher in the new scheme, I don't see them letting him go after the Butler injury.
I don't see why they'd cut Harper after his contract restructure in the off season, along with keeping another vet around for Vaccaro. Obviously Harper couldn't teach him anything about coverage, but he could be a huge mentor when it comes to blitzing and being aggressive at the line of scrimmage.
Vilma is the one I have the least amount of confidence in being on the final 53 man roster. Part of the reason the Jets traded him was that he didn't fit well in the 3-4 scheme. I think he'll have to have a very good, healthy camp to make it.
I don't see why they'd cut Harper after his contract restructure in the off season, along with keeping another vet around for Vaccaro. Obviously Harper couldn't teach him anything about coverage, but he could be a huge mentor when it comes to blitzing and being aggressive at the line of scrimmage.
Vilma is the one I have the least amount of confidence in being on the final 53 man roster. Part of the reason the Jets traded him was that he didn't fit well in the 3-4 scheme. I think he'll have to have a very good, healthy camp to make it.
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