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Message
re: The OFFICIAL Man of Steel Discussion and ***SPOILERS*** Thread
Posted on 6/28/13 at 6:15 am to tigersaint26
Posted on 6/28/13 at 6:15 am to tigersaint26
quote:
Shouldn't everyone know the real identity of Superman now anyway?
I mean Zod and his crew went to Smallville, went to Superman's mom's house, then Superman shows up. Military shows up, big battle, Smallville turned into Destructionville.
They should, at the least know which city he comes from. Heck he even says he's from Kansas. If they go to Smallville they surely could ask around and figure out that it's Clark.
all. of. this.
a Kryptonian ship (which we can assume was being monitored by our military) went directly to the Kent farm. how hard is it to do some background checking from there on the Kents and figure out who Clark is (besides the asking around part).
also, how is Clark's face not one of the most recognizable on the planet in the aftermath? would it not be everywhere? on every newspaper, magazine, web site, etc.
all this talk about knowledge of his existence changing the world, well the world just went thru a pretty jarring experience in learning of him. seems like that'd be front page news for like.... oh I don't know.... YEARS.
the one known remaining alien on Earth ... known to have been hidden amongst us previously... his face has to be everywhere and ppl have to be constantly looking at guys that fit his description like "is that him?"
and yet all he has to do to disguise himself is put on glasses (at a newspaper with inquisitive/ story-thirsty journalists no less).
1
Posted on 6/28/13 at 7:27 am to ATLTiger
quote:
also, how is Clark's face not one of the most recognizable on the planet in the aftermath? would it not be everywhere? on every newspaper, magazine, web site, etc.
Jerry Seinfeld had a great line about this and Jimmy Olsen. I can't think of the exact words but it has something about your best friend getting a new pair of glasses and you not being able to recognize him.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 8:15 am to OMLandshark
OML, I see where you said you were/are writing a Superman trilogy. Might email you with the loose outline I had for a Superman series that would lead into a Justice League series.
Spoiler alert: Superman bites the dust.
Spoiler alert: Superman bites the dust.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 9:04 am to RAGINTIGER
quote:
I do like the notion of having Lex going insane and having world catastrophic destruction to test Superman in the next film. If Zod and Superman did the damage they did fighting, imagine what Lex could do on a global scale. Nuclear bombs, airplane crashes, buildings blowing up, etc. Bank robberies are about as sad as it gets, but seeing Lex frick shite up 'Joker' style, while having Superman make choices, would be fun to watch. Id enjoy Nolan's interpretation of a Lex Luthor
That's not Lex Luthor. Lex is incredibly calculating and is typically more of "The Man Behind the Curtain". He typically gets away with just about everything he does because he covers his tracks well.
Luthor would have no interest in nuking the world, he's going to be interested in destroying Superman's reputation due to the fact that the Kryptonians came solely because he was present on Earth.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 11:51 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Lex is incredibly calculating and is typically more of "The Man Behind the Curtain"
It can be, but Lex can also very much be the mad scientist in battle armor.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 12:04 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Luthor would have no interest in nuking the world,
In the original movie didn't he nuke California?
Posted on 6/28/13 at 12:07 pm to cssamerican
quote:
In the original movie didn't he nuke California?
That's bullshite real estate Lex Luthor. The one closer in the comics isn't like that.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 12:22 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:
It can be, but Lex can also very much be the mad scientist in battle armor.
I'd make him a combination of the two: Ruthless corporate scientist. That's always the best Luthor.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 1:50 pm to RonBurgundy
Too much action in the movie and I thought Lois Lane was pretty weak. Costner was good.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 3:21 pm to Paul Allen
quote:
Too much action in the movie
In a comic book film?
Of course there was going to be a lot of action in a Superman film.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 3:26 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:
Of course there was going to be a lot of action in a Superman film.
That's not always the case. Man of Steel probably had more action scenes encased inside of it than all other Superman films combined.
Posted on 7/8/13 at 9:38 am to RollTide1987
Finally got to the theater to see this one, and it fricking blew. I haven't been this disappointed in a movie in a really long time...I went into it expecting to love it. I've skimmed this thread, and it seems like most people in here are fawning all over MoS and think it is awesome (except for OML, Freaux, and a couple of others). I just don't see it. I'll try to form my post around some discussion I've read in the thread (as to save the "that's been discussed already" responses). And I'll preface this post with saying that my knowledge of Superman comes basically from knowing who he is my whole life and seeing the previous movies...I never got into comics, so I have very little knowledge of what those encompass. Also, this will be really long, so sorry about that, but I am so fricking mad at this movie.
First off, I thought the editing was pretty bad. Scenes just jumped out of whack back and forth. Especially the first half of the movie. I kinda liked how they did flashbacks to show us a little about Clark learning about his powers and everything, I just thought they were jumpy and didnt flow well at all (and nonlinear narratives don't really bother me at all).
The writing was bad. BAD. I'm all for some cheese when it comes to superhero movies, but several times during the movie, I found myself laughing at how bad the dialogue was, and disappointed that the Nolans (wasn't Jonathan Nolan a part of the writing at some point?) were attached to this. I literally laughed out loud several times at some of the dialogue I was hearing.
It looks like Michael Shannon is being pretty lauded, but I actually thought he was terrible. I'm not familiar with a lot of other things he's been in (my buddy with me said he's good in Boardwalk Empire), but I thought his overacting in MoS was borderline laughable. The best (worst?) example of his acting (and the dialogue) was at one point when he tells Jor-El "I will find him. I will FIND him... I WILL FIIIIIND HIIIIIM!!!!!!" It was so awful and over-the-top (in a bad way) and just plain bad. That was one of the times I laughed at what I was seeing/hearing. At times I felt like a whiny 13 year old could've played Zod with how Shannon was acting him.
I found that a lot of times, it felt like the camera was zoomed in too close on everything. And I'm not just talking about the fight scenes (a la Transformers that people griped about when it came out), but sometimes in just regular scenes as well. I felt sort of awkwardly close to the characters sometimes. It was weird.
Why the hell was Lois Lane everywhere all the time? I mean, she was seemingly in every single major place at any given time. And what in the ever-loving bloody frick was she doing in the plane that was dropping the bomb/reactor..? I half-expected her to show up in the Indian Ocean at some point too.
Speaking of LL, I thought Amy Adams was meh. I normally like her fine enough, but she wasn't too good in this one. And the relationship-y vibe from her and Clark felt kinda awkward and forced. The kiss at the end was very stupid.
Clark's dad's death was awful. A) For him to tell Clark not to save him was stupid enough, but B) for Clark to actually listen was borderline unbelievable. Also, when they first get out of the car to run to the overpass, Clark should've run to save the dog, not his dad. Even when his dad says "Go, I'll get the dog.." Clark shoul've been like "Dad, I got this...go with mom." It just felt really weird that Clark would let that happen in any scenario, let alone one where he is a superhero.
The whole "Jor-El's consciousness" thing was weird for me. I think I saw earlier in the thread that it seems to be something throughout the comics though, so whatever. Also, if I remember the original SM movies, SM talks to Jor-El in the Fortres of Solitude. So it makes sense I guess, but I don't understand why the mother wasn't there as well...seems like if J-E can have his consciousness "preserved" and active, she maybe could've too (to have seen Clark later in his life).
What was the old spaceship burind in ice for 20,000 years? I didn't understand that. I get that SM injects J-E into the ship with his little S pen thing, and that's how they could communicate, but who's ship was that? And why was the suit on it? That didn't make much sense to me.
.........
First off, I thought the editing was pretty bad. Scenes just jumped out of whack back and forth. Especially the first half of the movie. I kinda liked how they did flashbacks to show us a little about Clark learning about his powers and everything, I just thought they were jumpy and didnt flow well at all (and nonlinear narratives don't really bother me at all).
The writing was bad. BAD. I'm all for some cheese when it comes to superhero movies, but several times during the movie, I found myself laughing at how bad the dialogue was, and disappointed that the Nolans (wasn't Jonathan Nolan a part of the writing at some point?) were attached to this. I literally laughed out loud several times at some of the dialogue I was hearing.
It looks like Michael Shannon is being pretty lauded, but I actually thought he was terrible. I'm not familiar with a lot of other things he's been in (my buddy with me said he's good in Boardwalk Empire), but I thought his overacting in MoS was borderline laughable. The best (worst?) example of his acting (and the dialogue) was at one point when he tells Jor-El "I will find him. I will FIND him... I WILL FIIIIIND HIIIIIM!!!!!!" It was so awful and over-the-top (in a bad way) and just plain bad. That was one of the times I laughed at what I was seeing/hearing. At times I felt like a whiny 13 year old could've played Zod with how Shannon was acting him.
I found that a lot of times, it felt like the camera was zoomed in too close on everything. And I'm not just talking about the fight scenes (a la Transformers that people griped about when it came out), but sometimes in just regular scenes as well. I felt sort of awkwardly close to the characters sometimes. It was weird.
Why the hell was Lois Lane everywhere all the time? I mean, she was seemingly in every single major place at any given time. And what in the ever-loving bloody frick was she doing in the plane that was dropping the bomb/reactor..? I half-expected her to show up in the Indian Ocean at some point too.
Speaking of LL, I thought Amy Adams was meh. I normally like her fine enough, but she wasn't too good in this one. And the relationship-y vibe from her and Clark felt kinda awkward and forced. The kiss at the end was very stupid.
Clark's dad's death was awful. A) For him to tell Clark not to save him was stupid enough, but B) for Clark to actually listen was borderline unbelievable. Also, when they first get out of the car to run to the overpass, Clark should've run to save the dog, not his dad. Even when his dad says "Go, I'll get the dog.." Clark shoul've been like "Dad, I got this...go with mom." It just felt really weird that Clark would let that happen in any scenario, let alone one where he is a superhero.
The whole "Jor-El's consciousness" thing was weird for me. I think I saw earlier in the thread that it seems to be something throughout the comics though, so whatever. Also, if I remember the original SM movies, SM talks to Jor-El in the Fortres of Solitude. So it makes sense I guess, but I don't understand why the mother wasn't there as well...seems like if J-E can have his consciousness "preserved" and active, she maybe could've too (to have seen Clark later in his life).
What was the old spaceship burind in ice for 20,000 years? I didn't understand that. I get that SM injects J-E into the ship with his little S pen thing, and that's how they could communicate, but who's ship was that? And why was the suit on it? That didn't make much sense to me.
.........
This post was edited on 7/8/13 at 9:46 am
Posted on 7/8/13 at 9:38 am to CocomoLSU
..... (continued, since I am long-winded as frick )
Okay, so Zod has these terraforming machines. They seem to be pretty badass and are wreaking havoc on the world. Cool. They're strong enough to physically affect everything around them, like cars and buildings...they lift off the ground and SLAM back into the ground and frick things up. Cool. However, when Lawrence Fishburne and his crew are running around the city, they aren't affected by any of this? Same with people running around...at one point, cars were being lifted off the ground and slammed back down while people ran all around. Shouldn't the same thing have happened to all the people? That was kinda weird, and it reminds me of the bitching people did about Transformers 2 (I think) where that mega transformer was sucking everything into its core but people were standing around unaffected. I guess this one gets a pass since it's Superman and not Transformers.
Speaking to my last point, the whole Series of scenes with Fishburne and his crew seemed out of place and completely unnecessary. I guess they were just trying to create unnecessary drama or make me care about those people? (which I didn't at all)
The fight scenes. Okay, I'm torn on these. I do think they were cool and all, but come the frick on. The fight scenes between Superman and Zod and his crew did more damage than the damn terraforming machines. Building after building after train after car after building were destroyed. I agree with whoever it was that said it was almost as if some 13 year old directed this and was like "Okay, we're gonna have a building right here and Zod will PUNCH SUPERMAN THROUGH IT. And we'll have a train over there and have Superman PUNCH ZOD THROUGH IT...rinse, repeat." It got laughable eventually. Also, it really bothered me how in one instant, a single punch would send the opponent through 5 buildings, but in the next second the same punch would send them flying into a metal rail where they would stop. There was no consistency at all...why can one wall stop a punch when the last 3 punches sent the person flying through multiple highrise buildings, a train, and vehicles? Stupid. And it seemed like the fights had almost nothing at stake, since they seemed to be evenly matched, except for lots and lots of human deaths. Which brings me to my next gripe...
Why were the fights so evenly matched? We learn from Jor-El that Superman draws his strength from Earth's Sun. He even literally says the line at one point: "I can't believe how strong you've gotten." That lead me to believe that when Jor-El was activated (in the old ship), Kal was even more powerful than J-E could've ever imagined. So for me, that set up the whole "Superman is indestructible" thing. However, when Zod and company get to Earth, they are just as powerful, if not more, than Clark was. Why? Even if their powers were strengthened by our sun, they had been there a single day whereas Clark had been absorbing it for 33 years. There's no way in hell they should've been on the same level. Yet Superman gets his arse HANDED TO HIM by Zod's chick soldier. I mean, she kicked his fricking arse. Handily. I can almost see how SM and Zod could be fairly evenly matched (even though I don't think they should be based on the setup that SM has been building his powers from our sun for three and a half decades), but his henchman chick? No way.
Also, it bothered me that SM so easily snapped Zod's neck. If it was that easy to dispose of him, he could've saved millions of human lives. He also could've not destroyed the largest city in the world killing untold numbers of people.
I'm sure I am forgetting some of the things that I hated about this movie, but those are ones that kept jumping into my mind while I was writing this. And don't get me wrong, I wish I loved this movie, because that's exactly what I was hoping would happen when I saw it. And I even tried to sort of "blindly like it," but I just can't. It was that bad at times.
There were things I did like about the movie. when Michael Shannon wasn't completely overacting in a high school play kind of way, I didn't mind him as Zod. Some of the fight scenes were cool (even if frustrating with what I mentioned above) and there was plenty enough action to keep me satisfied. And like someone else said earlier, they did a good job with not just having SM lift heavy things the whole time. I thought Russell Crowe was great. Same with Kevin Costner and Diane Lane. I thought Henry Cavill completely looked like what SM is supposed to look like. I liked the flashbacks (despite the jumpy editing). I liked the personality of Clark, and the angle of him staying off the grid most of his life.
All in all, I didn't hate it as much as I just hated how disappointed it was. It is good enough to be a "mindless popcorn flick," but I was just hoping/expecting more from it, especially based on the names attached to it (like Snyder and Nolan).
) Okay, so Zod has these terraforming machines. They seem to be pretty badass and are wreaking havoc on the world. Cool. They're strong enough to physically affect everything around them, like cars and buildings...they lift off the ground and SLAM back into the ground and frick things up. Cool. However, when Lawrence Fishburne and his crew are running around the city, they aren't affected by any of this? Same with people running around...at one point, cars were being lifted off the ground and slammed back down while people ran all around. Shouldn't the same thing have happened to all the people? That was kinda weird, and it reminds me of the bitching people did about Transformers 2 (I think) where that mega transformer was sucking everything into its core but people were standing around unaffected. I guess this one gets a pass since it's Superman and not Transformers.
Speaking to my last point, the whole Series of scenes with Fishburne and his crew seemed out of place and completely unnecessary. I guess they were just trying to create unnecessary drama or make me care about those people? (which I didn't at all)
The fight scenes. Okay, I'm torn on these. I do think they were cool and all, but come the frick on. The fight scenes between Superman and Zod and his crew did more damage than the damn terraforming machines. Building after building after train after car after building were destroyed. I agree with whoever it was that said it was almost as if some 13 year old directed this and was like "Okay, we're gonna have a building right here and Zod will PUNCH SUPERMAN THROUGH IT. And we'll have a train over there and have Superman PUNCH ZOD THROUGH IT...rinse, repeat." It got laughable eventually. Also, it really bothered me how in one instant, a single punch would send the opponent through 5 buildings, but in the next second the same punch would send them flying into a metal rail where they would stop. There was no consistency at all...why can one wall stop a punch when the last 3 punches sent the person flying through multiple highrise buildings, a train, and vehicles? Stupid. And it seemed like the fights had almost nothing at stake, since they seemed to be evenly matched, except for lots and lots of human deaths. Which brings me to my next gripe...
Why were the fights so evenly matched? We learn from Jor-El that Superman draws his strength from Earth's Sun. He even literally says the line at one point: "I can't believe how strong you've gotten." That lead me to believe that when Jor-El was activated (in the old ship), Kal was even more powerful than J-E could've ever imagined. So for me, that set up the whole "Superman is indestructible" thing. However, when Zod and company get to Earth, they are just as powerful, if not more, than Clark was. Why? Even if their powers were strengthened by our sun, they had been there a single day whereas Clark had been absorbing it for 33 years. There's no way in hell they should've been on the same level. Yet Superman gets his arse HANDED TO HIM by Zod's chick soldier. I mean, she kicked his fricking arse. Handily. I can almost see how SM and Zod could be fairly evenly matched (even though I don't think they should be based on the setup that SM has been building his powers from our sun for three and a half decades), but his henchman chick? No way.
Also, it bothered me that SM so easily snapped Zod's neck. If it was that easy to dispose of him, he could've saved millions of human lives. He also could've not destroyed the largest city in the world killing untold numbers of people.
I'm sure I am forgetting some of the things that I hated about this movie, but those are ones that kept jumping into my mind while I was writing this. And don't get me wrong, I wish I loved this movie, because that's exactly what I was hoping would happen when I saw it. And I even tried to sort of "blindly like it," but I just can't. It was that bad at times.
There were things I did like about the movie. when Michael Shannon wasn't completely overacting in a high school play kind of way, I didn't mind him as Zod. Some of the fight scenes were cool (even if frustrating with what I mentioned above) and there was plenty enough action to keep me satisfied. And like someone else said earlier, they did a good job with not just having SM lift heavy things the whole time. I thought Russell Crowe was great. Same with Kevin Costner and Diane Lane. I thought Henry Cavill completely looked like what SM is supposed to look like. I liked the flashbacks (despite the jumpy editing). I liked the personality of Clark, and the angle of him staying off the grid most of his life.
All in all, I didn't hate it as much as I just hated how disappointed it was. It is good enough to be a "mindless popcorn flick," but I was just hoping/expecting more from it, especially based on the names attached to it (like Snyder and Nolan).
This post was edited on 10/16/13 at 10:26 am
Posted on 7/8/13 at 9:44 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
What was the old spaceship burind in ice for 20,000 years? I didn't understand that. I get that SM injects J-E into the ship with his little S pen thing, and that's how they could communicate, but who's ship was that? And why was the suit on it? That didn't make much sense to me.
Kyrptonian explorer ship from many years ago. The empty pod is expected to be Supergirl fwiw
The movie had a prequel comic that explained all this
Posted on 7/8/13 at 9:47 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
Kyrptonian explorer ship from many years ago.
So the suit was meant for someone else? Because the scene (and Jor-El) seemed to make it seem like that suit was for Clark specifically. But that can't be the case if it's been sitting there for 20,000+ years.
And I didn't care at all about the pod. When they showed it, I figured it was some sort of foreshadowing, but it wasn't anything that I thought about for more than a couple seconds.
Posted on 7/8/13 at 9:49 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
Why were the fights so evenly matched? We learn from Jor-El that Superman draws his strength from Earth's Sun. He even literally says the line at one point: "I can't believe how strong you've gotten." That lead me to believe that when Jor-El was activated (in the old ship), Kal was even more powerful than J-E could've ever imagined. So for me, that set up the whole "Superman is indestructible" thing. However, when Zod and company get to Earth, they are just as powerful, if not more, than Clark was. Why? Even if their powers were strengthened by our sun, they had been there a single day whereas Clark had been absorbing it for 33 years. There's no way in hell they should've been on the same level. Yet Superman gets his arse HANDED TO HIM by Zod's chick soldier. I mean, she kicked his fricking arse. Handily. I can almost see how Zm and Zod could be fairly evenly matched (even though I don't think they should be based on the setup that SM has been building his powers from our sun for three and a half decades), but his henchman chick? No way.
Trained generals and soilders that were bred to fight will be able to adjust better than a kid that grew up on a farm knowing nothing of his origins and noone around him knowing anything about it. Its major struggle were likely through the growth part of his development. Im sure it wouldnt have taken Kal that long to adjust had he come from Kyrpton as a full funtional adult out of puberty.
Posted on 7/8/13 at 9:51 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
So the suit was meant for someone else? Because the scene (and Jor-El) seemed to make it seem like that suit was for Clark specifically. But that can't be the case if it's been sitting there for 20,000+ years.
If kyortonian technology can make a mobile conscious having a 30 years ago dead Jor El walking around controlling the ship, then im sure they can manage making a suit
quote:
And I didn't care at all about the pod. When they showed it, I figured it was some sort of foreshadowing, but it wasn't anything that I thought about for more than a couple seconds.
Well thats the point. Its an easter egg for the next movie. Most people unless they read it over the internet had no clue about the pod after the movie or didnt think about it
This post was edited on 7/8/13 at 9:52 am
Posted on 7/8/13 at 10:18 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
Trained generals and soilders that were bred to fight
I can buy that well enough, but I still don't see why they'd put that line in the movie at all then. Maybe I misread what Jor-El meant when he said it, but I took it as "Holy shite, son, you're a fricking beast" instead of "I'm surprised you've grown to be as strong as other normal soldier babies from Krypton."
Posted on 7/8/13 at 10:20 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
Well thats the point. Its an easter egg for the next movie. Most people unless they read it over the internet had no clue about the pod after the movie or didnt think about it
Right. I know what an easter egg is. I just didn't understand why you went into the explanation of the pod when that wasn't anything I had asked about. I noticed the empty pod and just figured it would come up later at some point (not even necessarily in this movie...just in the series).
Preciate the explanation though, as well as the back and forth (since most of the others active in this thread don't seem to be around).
This post was edited on 7/8/13 at 10:21 am
Posted on 7/8/13 at 10:30 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
The movie had a prequel comic that explained all this
A movie should not need a prequel comic for things to make sense.
Where is this comic BTW? In stores?
Or is it a rinky dink promo thing that I'm better off downloading?
This post was edited on 7/8/13 at 10:33 am
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