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re: Generally speaking, you rather move up or down in the draft?
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:39 pm to St Augustine
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:39 pm to St Augustine
I'll trade the 4th to move up to 10 or 11 if one of the OTs, OLBers or Star is there.
1
Posted on 4/8/13 at 9:09 pm to SaintLSUnAtl
quote:
C'mon man. Don't be retarded. I didn't say always trade out of the first. But name a time in the last 10 years that trading up in the first was worth it
RGIII, Trent Richardson, Earl Thomas, Julio Jones, Demaryius Thomas, Mile Lupati, Michael Oher, Clay Matthews, Branden Albert, Joe Staley, Darrell Revis, Joe Flacco, Santonio Holmes, Haloti Ngata, Steven Jackson, Vince Wolfork, Eli Manning and Troy Polamalu.
Satisfied?
Posted on 4/8/13 at 10:31 pm to Suntiger
If we give up a 4th for Mingo I may kill a kitten .
Posted on 4/9/13 at 8:58 am to St Augustine
quote:
If we give up a 4th for Mingo I may kill a kitten .
I hate kittens!
Posted on 4/9/13 at 9:13 am to Suntiger
quote:
RGIII, Trent Richardson, Earl Thomas, Julio Jones, Demaryius Thomas, Mile Lupati, Michael Oher, Clay Matthews, Branden Albert, Joe Staley, Darrell Revis, Joe Flacco, Santonio Holmes, Haloti Ngata, Steven Jackson, Vince Wolfork, Eli Manning and Troy Polamalu.
Satisfied?
Sure. How many of those players were drafted by the Saints? Why would I care what anyone else has done? We're talking about the Saints here. You must be trolling. You can't be that dumb.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 10:01 am to SaintLSUnAtl
Sure, we should ignore the successes and failures of other teams in making draft choices.
You can't be so stupid to realize that moving up to pick a good player isn't always a bad idea. And FYI, we moved up to pick Jammal Brown in the last ten years and he turned out to be a pro bowler. Stop being so obtuse!
You can't be so stupid to realize that moving up to pick a good player isn't always a bad idea. And FYI, we moved up to pick Jammal Brown in the last ten years and he turned out to be a pro bowler. Stop being so obtuse!
Posted on 4/9/13 at 10:16 am to Suntiger
quote:
Sure, we should ignore the successes and failures of other teams in making draft choices.
No, you're right. We should continue to trade up, lose picks, and end up with medicore players. IDGAF what other teams have done. We have failed when trading up literally every time in recent memory.
quote:
You can't be so stupid to realize that moving up to pick a good player isn't always a bad idea
I'm not saying it is. But 1) We have lost enough picks recently between trading them away (again, for mediocre players and in some cases players who didn't even make the team) and 2) based on #1, we don't have that many picks to trade away to start with
quote:
And FYI, we moved up to pick Jammal Brown in the last ten years and he turned out to be a pro bowler. Stop being so obtuse!
Now I know you're trolling. You didn't really come at me with Jamaal Brown, did you? That was in 2005. Sure, he was a "pro-bowler" just like Bushrod was a "pro-bowler". We traded that pro-bowl LT for a 4th round pick. You don't do that if he truly is an elite LT. On top of which, he immediately got moved to RT, and subsequently released from the Skins. I'm not saying Brown sucked per se, but again, he wasn't worth giving up more picks to trade up for. My whole point being is the guy you are trading up for really, truly worth what you are giving up? In every single case for the Saints for as long as I can remember, the anwer has been a resounding no. The best trade up we've made for as long as I can remember was moving up in the 5th to get Morstead. We didn't exactly have to give up multiple 1st or 2nd rounders for him.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 10:20 am to Chad504boy
quote:
Staying put not an option for this question. Moving up meaning the 8-12 range. Down meaning 20-27 range.
Disclaimer: I haven't done any research on this topic.
It just seems this FO has not had much success in the first round-period. The team has historically not done well when moving up (Sullivan, Ellis, Ingram...just to name a few).
I say move down and get more picks...increase the odds of finding a playmaker.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 10:30 am to adono
quote:
It just seems this FO has not had much success in the first round-period. The team has historically not done well when moving up (Sullivan, Ellis, Ingram...just to name a few).
I say move down and get more picks...increase the odds of finding a playmaker.
That's what I've been saying this entire thread. Apparently we can't base our decision on past success/failure of this team, but we CAN base it on past successes of other teams.
IMO, history repeats itself. As it has with this team in the first round/trading up in the first round. Time and again.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 10:31 am to SaintLSUnAtl
quote:
That's what I've been saying this entire thread. Apparently we can't base our decision on past success/failure of this team, but we CAN base it on past successes of other teams.
IMO, history repeats itself. As it has with this team in the first round/trading up in the first round. Time and again.
If you don't have faith in your evaluations and scouting reports, what's the fricking point of being employed?
Posted on 4/9/13 at 10:39 am to Chad504boy
Wtf does that have to do with the thread? The question was whether or not WE would want the team to move up or down. Based on the history of first round failure from this team, I'd rather trade down. But they don't gaf what I think. But that's not what the question was. I'm sure the fo has the utmost confidence in their abilities. Doesn't mean I do, not in early rounds anyway. They excel in finding late round an free agents gems tho
Posted on 4/9/13 at 10:41 am to SaintLSUnAtl
quote:
Wtf does that have to do with the thread?
has everything to do with the thread when you are using their own past failures as a reason not to trust a move up in the draft to grab a particular player they covet based upon their own judgements, opinions, and scouting evaluations. Do you not fricking understand?
This post was edited on 4/9/13 at 10:41 am
Posted on 4/9/13 at 10:47 am to Chad504boy
You sure are getting defensive. Did you not read my post at all? You asked the question. I answered. You must disagree with my reasoning. And that's fine. But I stand by it. Yes, based on the repeated misses in the first round and trading up, I, again I repeat, I would rather them trade down. Again, history has proven to repeat itself with the decisions they've made early in the draft. Could that change? Sure. But one more time, based off the repeated proven failures at the top of the draft from this team, I would rather see them trade down. I'm not sure how much clearer to explain it. Disagree if you wish.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 10:51 am to SaintLSUnAtl
quote:
Yes, based on the repeated misses in the first round and trading up,
I'm going to take this from step 1 with you then.
What repeated misses are you talking about? Go.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 11:10 am to adono
quote:
I say move down and get more picks...increase the odds of finding a playmaker.
The odds of finding a playmaker in picks 1-15 are greater than finding one in picks 30-42.
About 41% of last years defensive pro bowlers were selected with the 16th or higher pick.
About 17% were in the 4th round or later.
15% were selected between 16 and 31.
13% were selected between 31 and 124.(2nd & 3rd round)
9% were UFA.
(5% rate of error)
Where pick do you want to have?
I'm not advocating trading up. We don't have the picks this year to do that. I'd like to stay at 15, but if I HAVE to trade up or trade down, I'd rather trade up this year.
quote:
It just seems this FO has not had much success in the first round-period. The team has historically not done well when moving up (Sullivan, Ellis, Ingram...just to name a few).
So Detroit shouldn't have drafted Charles Johnson, because historically they haven't done well with 1st round WRs? I guess Tampa should have drafting players in the 80s because all their players sucked.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 11:28 am to Chad504boy
quote:
What repeated misses are you talking about? Go.
He's saying because we traded up for Ellis & Ingram in the 1st round that if we trade up for anyone else in the first round they will also be a bust.
Shortsided logic IMO.
Also, it doesn't take into account that none of our first rounders have set the world on fire. Bush and Jordan are probably our best.
It also doesn't take into account the type of players that are available in the first round as opposed to the second and fifth and sixth rounds.
People only remember Jimmy Graham, Carl Nicks, Jermon Bushrod, Colston and Jahri Evans, but don't remember Al Woods, Rob Ninkovich, Nate Bussey, Matt Tennant, DeMario Pressley, Taylor Mehlhaff, Greg Romeus, Adrian Arrington, Mike Hass, Usama Young, David Jones, Andy Alleman, Antonio Pittman and Marvin Mitchell who were drafted during that same period. Lack of perspective.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 11:31 am to Suntiger
quote:
He's saying because we traded up for Ellis & Ingram in the 1st round that if we trade up for anyone else in the first round they will also be a bust.
so trading up to the spot we took ingram is bad but trading down to the spot we took ingram would be better? fricking idiot. If he's talking ellis and sullivan, maybe we can short the logic to strictly defensive tackles.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 12:46 pm to Suntiger
And of that list Suntiger, only Evans and Colston were true gems that no one talked about(Bushrod doesn't deserve to be on there; he played like a mid rounder).
Nicks fell because of character issues(and we let him walk because of that and money) and Graham fell because he just started playing football. Both of these guys showed great talent.
So out of all of our 3-7 round picks since Payton got here, we found 2 gems and drafted 2 players that had first round talent in later rounds.
Honestly our first round percentage is about on par with the rest. Very few good picks, most mediocre, and some very bad.
Nicks fell because of character issues(and we let him walk because of that and money) and Graham fell because he just started playing football. Both of these guys showed great talent.
So out of all of our 3-7 round picks since Payton got here, we found 2 gems and drafted 2 players that had first round talent in later rounds.
Honestly our first round percentage is about on par with the rest. Very few good picks, most mediocre, and some very bad.
Posted on 4/9/13 at 12:46 pm to Chad504boy
The combination of first round "meh" picks and trading up for flat out busts is undeniable.
Traded up for:
Ellis
Ingram
Pittman
Woods
Arrington
First round picks:
Bush
Meachem
Ingram
Jordan
Jenkins
Robinson
Ellis
I'm sorry but not a single one of those moves gives me confidence that they will trade UP to get a difference maker.
Again, its all relative. It's all my opinion, for the third time, so I don't wtf you are trying to argue with me for. You won't change my mind. It's not a right or wrong thing. It's an opinion. You freaking tool
Traded up for:
Ellis
Ingram
Pittman
Woods
Arrington
First round picks:
Bush
Meachem
Ingram
Jordan
Jenkins
Robinson
Ellis
I'm sorry but not a single one of those moves gives me confidence that they will trade UP to get a difference maker.
Again, its all relative. It's all my opinion, for the third time, so I don't wtf you are trying to argue with me for. You won't change my mind. It's not a right or wrong thing. It's an opinion. You freaking tool
Posted on 4/9/13 at 12:50 pm to SaintLSUnAtl
quote:
The combination of first round "meh" picks and trading up for flat out busts is undeniable.
Traded up for:
Ellis
Ingram
Pittman
Woods
Arrington
so now you're including any and all picks outside of 1st that we made a move up for? How about the list of players we chose we when stood pat that were busts too, it'd be more than that list guaranteed thus we should never ever draft a player when we stood pat with a pick! See how fricking idiotic this is.
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