Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion? | Page 3 | TigerDroppings.com

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TigerintheNO
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
23323 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

I've always said that the Big 12 should have taken Louisville over TCU. What does TCU bring to the table that Louisville doesn't?


less buyout fees for the Big East is all I can think off, maybe more political cover for Texas






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CGSC Lobotomy
Texas A&M Fan
Lewis-McChord, Washington
Member since Sep 2011
18200 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

I've always said that the Big 12 should have taken Louisville over TCU. What does TCU bring to the table that Louisville doesn't?


A willingness to take a LESSER SHARE of their own revenue for the first couple of years of their membership.

You do remember that neither WVU nor TCU get a full share of Big 12 revenue until 2015, right?






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Backinthe615
Member since Nov 2011
2373 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


If I remember right, UL not only wanted the invite, but KY senator Mitch McConnell stepped in & tried to submarine the WVU deal at the last minute.

This expansion biz is above my paygrade, but I wish they would've gotten all of the above with Cincy (making it 12) and had two regional divis with built-in (kinda) rivalries.







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Gountiss
Virginia Tech Fan
Boone, NC
Member since Aug 2012
185 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


Nah, WVU has a much bigger fan base than Louisville and TCU makes geographic sense.





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CGSC Lobotomy
Texas A&M Fan
Lewis-McChord, Washington
Member since Sep 2011
18200 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

WVU has a much bigger fan base than Louisville


Are you sure about that?

Louisville is the THIRD most profitable athletic department in college athletics.






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StraightCashHomey21
West Virginia Fan
Huntingdon,UK
Member since Jul 2009
54835 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

Are you sure about that?


Hokie man is right

this is the first year we didn't turn a profit in a long time b/c of the buy out.

All them being 3rd says is there fans buy shite



This post was edited on 4/8 at 12:40 am


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EastcoastEER
West Virginia Fan
South Carolina
Member since Nov 2011
287 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


lol WVU fans to an expansion thread = moths to flame...but anyways...

quote:

Louisville is the THIRD most profitable athletic department in college athletics.



Doesn't that have one hell of a lot to do with the KFC Yum Center, or whatever the hell their basketball arena is called? One would think merchandise sales would be more indicative of fanbase size than overall AD profitability, and WVU wins there. I want to say in the most recent merchandise sales ranking (2012) WVU was around 17-18, while Louisville was down in the 30s.

ETA: From July 2012, WVU = 17 in nation in total merchandising, UL = 32 (not all schools included in list)



This post was edited on 4/8 at 7:29 am


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CGSC Lobotomy
Texas A&M Fan
Lewis-McChord, Washington
Member since Sep 2011
18200 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

this is the first year we didn't turn a profit in a long time b/c of the buy out.


Don't forget the "reduced share" that WVU and TCU will receive until their third year in the league (IIRC, 65% in 2012-2013, 80% in 2013-2014)






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EastcoastEER
West Virginia Fan
South Carolina
Member since Nov 2011
287 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

Don't forget the "reduced share" that WVU and TCU will receive until their third year in the league (IIRC, 65% in 2012-2013, 80% in 2013-2014)


And how sad is it that our reduced share in the Big12 was still more than we would have gotten under our old deal in the Big East?






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CGSC Lobotomy
Texas A&M Fan
Lewis-McChord, Washington
Member since Sep 2011
18200 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

And how sad is it that our reduced share in the Big12 was still more than we would have gotten under our old deal in the Big East?


I don't think anyone is questioning that being in the Big 12 is far better than being in the Big East. The topic of this thread, however, is "did the Big 12 get it wrong?"

The Big 12 got it wrong back in 2006 when they villified Kevin Weiberg for trying to start up a conference network and fired him as commissioner for someone who would be more of a lapdog to DeLoss Dodds (Dan Beebe). Weiberg went on to found the Big Ten Network.

Aside from the Big East, the biggest loser in realignment is the Big 12 - losing Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, and Missouri in a span of two years. The gain of TCU and WVU does not come close to offsetting that.



This post was edited on 4/8 at 7:47 am


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ATX Horn
Navy Fan
Member since Aug 2011
504 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

The Big 12 got it wrong back in 2006 when they villified Kevin Weiberg for trying to start up a conference network and fired him as commissioner for someone who would be more of a lapdog to DeLoss Dodds (Dan Beebe). Weiberg went on to found the Big Ten Network.


False.

Weiberg was not fired and he did not found or create the Big Ten network.






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StraightCashHomey21
West Virginia Fan
Huntingdon,UK
Member since Jul 2009
54835 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

And how sad is it that our reduced share in the Big12 was still more than we would have gotten under our old deal in the Big East?


yup and we still getting paid






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H-Town Tiger
Toledo Fan
Member since Nov 2003
42628 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

Because it matters. You can't judge UL based on their last 10 years. You have to project...and their projection looks pretty good. It's not like this is their one and only good year in any sport


That's great if you are a Louisville fan, but it has nothing to do with conference expansion. If you think they are expanding by picking schools they think will win at a higher level, you clearly have not been paying attention.






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H-Town Tiger
Toledo Fan
Member since Nov 2003
42628 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

I've always said that the Big 12 should have taken Louisville over TCU. What does TCU bring to the table that Louisville doesn't?


This is relevant question, but not becuase L'ville men's and women's basketball are in the FF

ETA: I wouldn't be surprised to see L'ville in the BigXII at some point, escpecially if they want to expand beyond 12.



This post was edited on 4/8 at 10:49 am


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TheCaterpillar
LSU Fan
Nashville from BR via Oxford
Member since Jan 2004
37453 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

SEC got it wrong with Mizzou


yep

We should've added Clemson, FSU, UNC, or Virginia.







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StraightCashHomey21
West Virginia Fan
Huntingdon,UK
Member since Jul 2009
54835 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

We should've added Clemson, FSU, UNC, or Virginia.



none of which would have happened






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H-Town Tiger
Toledo Fan
Member since Nov 2003
42628 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

yep

We should've added Clemson, FSU




How many times do we have to discuss this until everyone gets it? Conference Expansion NOT about adding good football teams. It is about adding new markets. a) the SEC is already in SC and Fla, adding teams from those states doesn't increase the pie b) Florida, USCe, UGA and Kentucky WILL NOT agree to add teams from those states. So it is a non starter.

quote:

UNC, or Virginia


I'm pretty sure UNC would have been the first choice in the east, however they were not interested for a variety of reasons. Next would be UVA same story, and again for Maryland and VT. They needed 14 and Mizzo was a better option than WVU.



This post was edited on 4/8 at 11:01 am


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CGSC Lobotomy
Texas A&M Fan
Lewis-McChord, Washington
Member since Sep 2011
18200 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


quote:

a) the SEC is already in SC and Fla, adding teams from those states doesn't increase the pie


It actually decreases the pie by splitting the market without adding a new one.

Using the closest market, city-wise to the school in question answer this: which major market will adding that school deliver that the other currently existing school in the same state won't?

Can't use Alabama, Mississippi, or Tennessee as example states, as those states' members of the SEC are original members.

Georgia: Georgia Tech has steadily lost ground to UGA. In fact, it's probably safe to say that Georgia Tech can't even pull the Atlanta market, its own host city. Why would the SEC add a school that doesn't add any nearby market, LEFT THE CONFERENCE ALREADY, and adds another mouth to feed?

Florida: The only major city closer to Tallahassee than Gainsville is ATLANTA. As the Seminoles don't carry the majority of the market in their own home state, what makes you think they'd carry a greater share of the ATLANTA market than UGA?

South Carolina: The closest market to Clemson is Charlotte, NC. Unless you can guarantee that they would pull a bigger share in Charlotte and the Triangle (Fayetteville, Raleigh, Durham) than either the North Carolina schools OR South Carolina they are another mouth to feed without the benefits. Put a NORTH CAROLINA school in the SEC, on the other hand, and you extend the market into Virginia and possibly even DC.

Texas: All the talk about Texas being a "great addition" to the SEC discounts one HUGE fact - Which city in the state of Texas had the largest increase in market share for the SEC when A&M joined for this past season? Austin. What NEW markets will Texas provide that A&M hasn't already? A&M already brings Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin (yes, Austin had the largest increase in market share for the SEC since A&M joined)

Kentucky: UK already provides most of the state and even dips into the Cincinnati market. Louisville wouldn't all of a sudden wrest control of the state of Ohio from OSU.






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Bama Bird
Penn State Fan
Member since Mar 2013
12761 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


I'm fairly sure of it. West Virginia has more fans





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Bama Bird
Penn State Fan
Member since Mar 2013
12761 posts

re: Did the Big 12 get it wrong with expansion?


At what point will commissioners realize that this is what we're going to end up as.



If you don't watch Breaking Bad, Walt has gotten so much money that his family can't spend it and his wife has to rent a storage unit to keep it in. (because they have to launder it, and there's too much to launder). Yet, Walt insists on continuing making meth (Spoiler: he decides to quit after seeing this storage unit)

The point is: where will the line be drawn? What's the difference between 300 million and 350 million? We (SEC) have enough money for every athletic department to support itself (other than Tennessee, but that's a mystery). So by adding less than desirable teams for TV markets, what is it really worth?

I, for one, would rather go after a team like Oklahoma. Who will be in elite bowls every year and their fan base will raise conference revenue in itself. I don't want to end up where we have 20,000 empty seats at the SEC football championship because Missouri and NC State happen to both make it one year. If we're going to add someone else, I say it be Oklahoma and Kansas (or Oklahoma State, if OU requires them), and call it quits.






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