A Discussion on International War and Free Trade | TigerDroppings.com

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SlowFlowPro
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A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


wit all of these threats of war with NK, especially with China's involvement, i've been thinking a lot this week about state v. state war over the past 20-30 years. this correlates to thte rise of china as an international economic force, the fall and rise of russia also, as well as the formation/expansion of the EU

honest question. when was the last state-state war? obviously we have the first gulf war and iraq2. there are probably some african civil wars that have led to state-state conflicts that i don't know about. russia sort of invaded georgia a few years ago

it's relatively rare today. i hope that we all admit that. the vast majority of conflicts are civil wars of one nature or another. the US is also "at war" with certain groups that aren't always running states, so i don't count that

my argument is not novel, but it's clear. the best way to combat state-to-state war is through international trade.

funny enough, the fringe of the progressive movement involves many groups that detest world trade and see it as a cause of war. they see international trade as exploitive because they believe all states should trade on equal footing, which is ridiculous. many in this group would gladly walk in a world peace protest, however.

does anybody on here agree with them?







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WikiTiger
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


You may hate someone with a passion, but if doing business with them enriches you, then you will likely ensure that they are not harmed.

That is the essence of globalization and interdependence.

You understand that. Most rational people understand it at some level.

However, the vitriol that a globalized economy receives still baffles me.

quote:

funny enough, the fringe of the progressive movement involves many groups that detest world trade and see it as a cause of war. they see international trade as exploitive because they believe all states should trade on equal footing, which is ridiculous. many in this group would gladly walk in a world peace protest, however.



If you haven't seen it already, you should watch Commanding Heights:

Commanding Heights Part 1

Commanding Heights Part 2

Commanding Heights Part 3


Yea, it's 6 hours, but it's very well worth it.






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SlowFlowPro
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


i'll watch that maybe over next week, but certainly not today

quote:

However, the vitriol that a globalized economy receives still baffles me.

i agree

take the "sweat shop" argument. people really do think that these kids would be going to elite american-style schools with a chance at college and a professional career. no, these kids would be starving, working on farms, or going into illicit industries like prostitution/drugs

it's the same thing with women. instead of being slaves to their husbands, they can actually go and work and make their own money now. that's a GOOD thing. it gives them power. they're not just relegated to having babies and staying at home in the kitchen.

more importantly, if these countries have "Sweat shops" of international corporations, the odds of these same poor people fighting and dying in a war are reduced exponentially. frick the wage argument, because their lives are worth more than American minimum wage



This post was edited on 4/7 at 12:20 pm


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Ace Midnight
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


quote:

take the "sweat shop" argument


Although I react, viscerally, as do many people to the depictions shown, that is really just union propoganda. Pretending otherwise is naivete or worse.






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TigerFanatic99
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


it's kind of the skin in the game argument. If every country is trading on even footing, every country has a vested interest in keeping the peace.





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SlowFlowPro
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


quote:

Although I react, viscerally, as do many people to the depictions shown, that is really just union propoganda. Pretending otherwise is naivete or worse.

yeah it sucks dick compared to my life, for sure

as my roommate in law school had to explain to me, life gave me a gold-plated, winning lotto ticket by being born in America. being born with genetic gifts was just a huge slice of luck. people need to think in these terms more. i will always be grateful for him, even if i grow to hate him later in life

it's very dishonest to show clips of sweat shops without showing the alternative paths these people would face






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St Augustine
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


thanks for the commanding heights links man. Going to watch that as I have time this week. Looks interesting.





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Decatur
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


quote:

the best way to combat state-to-state war is through international trade.


This is kinda simplified by the "McDonalds theory" of international relations: no two nations with a McDonalds will go to war with each other. I think the Russia/Georgia thing was an exception though.






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tide06
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


People in the US love the idea of free trade and globalization until they realize that their job could ultimately be next one outsourced.

If you want to support globalization you need to understand that its one of the primary causes of our current 63% labor participation rate and budget deficits. A growing number of people have realized they cant compete and are being allowed to quit trying by politicians who would rather print money and run in the red than enact place policies that would create jobs and increase our tax revenues.






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SlowFlowPro
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


quote:

. I think the Russia/Georgia thing was an exception though.

i counted it but it's really part of a civil war-type situation in reality, imho

including iran, the 3 states who have engaged or are a threat to engage in, state-state war, have dramatic trade limitations/sanctions against them. i think there is a correlation there.






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Decatur
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


Here's a little more about what I was talking about

quote:

Thomas L. Friedman said in The Lexus and the Olive Tree that no two countries with McDonald's within their borders have ever been in a war since having a McDonald's. Friedman thinks it's because countries that are economically tethered have too much at stake to go to war. The Golden Arches Theory of Conflict Prevention has its critics and its fans, but the overarching premise is that globalization is a sure-fire step towards peace. Friedman may have a point, but something tells me a few McDs cropping up in Iran may not have the desired effect.


LINK

I forgot this was Friedman's quip






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Decatur
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


After Russia/Georgia I think Friedman had to update his theory, now called the Dell Theory of Conflict Prevention

quote:

“The Dell Theory stipulates: No two countries that are both part of a major global supply chain, like Dell’s, will ever fight a war against each other as long as they are both part of the same global supply chain.”


LINK






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Decatur
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


dp


This post was edited on 4/7 at 1:19 pm


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SlowFlowPro
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


quote:

dp

kinky






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TROLA
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


Americans have a simple antiquated view of globalization within the workforce and instead of using the positives.. Cheap products and parts to our advantage, many bitch about the loss of simple factory jobs. Our advancement sets us apart, we have the capability to still sit on the mountaintop and have maufacoring jobs but on a level above making plastic crap. Hopefully the blue collar workforce will fully embrace this, shifting their skill set upwards instead of bitching about crappy line work that is best left to developing industrial economies.

Th fact is, China is taking in all fronts of manufacturing biting away at our potential because of stubbornness within parts of our workforce.

State wars involving developed countries will continue to be few and far between with the globalized economies, media and alliances in place. Just my opinion..






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SlowFlowPro
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


quote:

People in the US love the idea of free trade and globalization until they realize that their job could ultimately be next one outsourced.

yet we still demand cheap products :/






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TrueTiger
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


quote:

China is taking in all fronts of manufacturing biting away at our potential because of stubbornness within parts of our workforce.


The robots are coming.

US manufacturing will grow, but the jobs won't.






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tigeraddict
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


quote:

the best way to combat state-to-state war is through international trade.


But also remember that Russia's was a huge trading partner with Germany in the 1940....

A crazed leader is always a wild card when it comes to war....

You argument is fairly sound when you talk about rational leadership






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SlowFlowPro
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


the world is a bit more connected than in 1940





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TrueTiger
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re: A Discussion on International War and Free Trade


quote:

when was the last state-state war?


Tossing out US- N. Vietnam, USSR-Afganistan, and the US-Iraq/Afghan stuff,
I'd have to go back to Israel-Egypt or UK-Argentina.




This post was edited on 4/7 at 2:10 pm


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